Ballyfermot Leisure Centre 150% cost over run ~€27m -repercussions ?

cyberianpan

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Our civil and public servants in this country are untouchable...as they always coverup for their bosses

Dublin City Council leisure centre comes in
A spokeswoman for Dublin City Council declined to comment further including providing the name of the contractor concerned.
Allowing it to drag out for six years was a shambles...but helps take the heat off too
... especially as much of the praise gushed forth in 2008, e.g. Ballyfermot's new pool complex a positive legacy of the boom

Given the lost money... I'd expect a robust architect's report explaining what really went down ...

cyp
 
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GDPR

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For the laugh you should send in a FOI request for every document relating to this, assuming you're actually interested. It will be a real eye opener the amount of redacted lines or sentences you'll receive back. The short answer to the OP is answers will not be forthcoming and unless you have some sort of career suicide wish aka whistleblower, then you keep the head down, cover your ass and that of your supervisor.
 

firefly123

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Not enough faaaacilities and ameeeeeenities!
 

Absurdo

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Well I did read the article. Looks like there was substandard work by the contractor that needed to be remediate. And that is costly. I see the Markievicz pool has just reopened after many years being closed due to poor construction. This all points to the appalling public procurement process. As public authorities are stripped of expertise and more and more rely on both the private sector and the requirement to go for lowest cost this will happen more often. No one in the private sector would do development this way.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Mr Keegan added: “Following a review of the case and assessing the opinion of our legal counsel and our expert consultants, it was decided that the most financially prudent course of action was to negotiate a settlement with the contractor. A settlement was agreed with the contractor in June 2016 in the amount of €5 million plus VAT, representing full and final settlement of their claim and €8 million in relation to their costs to date.”
I wonder what he ought to have done differently?
 

realistic1

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Our civil and public servants in this country are untouchable...as they always coverup for their bosses

Dublin City Council leisure centre comes in


Allowing it to drag out for six years was a shambles...but helps take the heat off too
... especially as much of the praise gushed forth in 2008, e.g. Ballyfermot's new pool complex a positive legacy of the boom

Given the lost money... I'd expect a robust architect's report explaining what really went down ...

cyp
Its a ************************************g scandel again that will have no consequences for the Council officials or the contractor. The taxpayers will hold all the consequences. I work for a Multi-national and if a fraction of this happened their would be consequences for all involved. The problem with State jobs is they want to be rewarded in the same way as Multi-nationals, minus the consequences.
 

realistic1

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Our civil and public servants in this country are untouchable...as they always coverup for their bosses

Dublin City Council leisure centre comes in


Allowing it to drag out for six years was a shambles...but helps take the heat off too
... especially as much of the praise gushed forth in 2008, e.g. Ballyfermot's new pool complex a positive legacy of the boom

Given the lost money... I'd expect a robust architect's report explaining what really went down ...

cyp
and the story is nicely reported when most people are enjoying the Xmas holidays and will probably miss this. This should be at the top of all news reports, especially with the current shortage of property for Irish Citizens.
 

Absurdo

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Private sector procurement for capital investment is based on a value proposition. Public procurement used to be but is now based on MEAT and openness procedures. It is unwieldy and inefficient and more expensive in the long run for many projects. It would appear to be designed to spread the publics taxes among the politically connected.
 

artfoley56

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I wonder what he ought to have done differently?
From the 2014 audit, Keegan wrote

"He wrote: “Since handover and opening of the facility, parts of the facility -the five a side pitches and the pool - had to be closed for remediation following the discovery of further substandard works.

He said: “In view of the total disproportion between the sum claimed by the contractor and the original contract sum and the very large amount of money involved, defence of this claim has and will continue to be proactively and robustly managed."

He added: “It is a matter of severe disappointment to say the least, that this matter has not been clarified and disposed of six years after the handover of the facility.”

A spokeswoman for Dublin City Council declined to comment further including providing the name of the contractor concerned.
 

Franzoni

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Well I did read the article. Looks like there was substandard work by the contractor that needed to be remediate. And that is costly. I see the Markievicz pool has just reopened after many years being closed due to poor construction. This all points to the appalling public procurement process. As public authorities are stripped of expertise and more and more rely on both the private sector and the requirement to go for lowest cost this will happen more often. No one in the private sector would do development this way.
I've worked on public and private sector contracts in the construction industry..you might be surprised by the amount of fúck ups that get buried on both type of projects....

From my own experience the management team are usually nowhere to be found and would rather the problem was sorted on site...this has led to some interesting situations at the end of projects over the years especially when it comes to slicing the pie with the term "cost implication" thrown around like snuff at a wake....:D

Private sector procurement for capital investment is based on a value proposition. Public procurement used to be but is now based on MEAT and openness procedures. It is unwieldy and inefficient and more expensive in the long run for many projects. It would appear to be designed to spread the publics taxes among the politically connected.
I've been out of the game for a few years but it sounds like the same old same old ......reform is always seen as an opportunity to gouge more money rather than the other way around....and if you have someone on the inside to give you the billy on what's coming down the pipe.............;)
 

Watcher2

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Well I did read the article. Looks like there was substandard work by the contractor that needed to be remediate. And that is costly. I see the Markievicz pool has just reopened after many years being closed due to poor construction. This all points to the appalling public procurement process. As public authorities are stripped of expertise and more and more rely on both the private sector and the requirement to go for lowest cost this will happen more often. No one in the private sector would do development this way.
We have never had developers in this country. We only had cowboy builders.
 

Absurdo

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Oh it goes on in both arenas. Capital development needs substantial contingencies. Part of the nature of the beast.

But we are missing accountability_both public and private. Corporate structures allow malfeasance disguised as misfeasance off the hook. The courts are designed via cost to prevent justice and Mandarins build their power empires in and with their political masters (pun) . We are at a bad place in history.
 

Expose the lot of them

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Our civil and public servants in this country are untouchable...as they always coverup for their bosses

Dublin City Council leisure centre comes in


Allowing it to drag out for six years was a shambles...but helps take the heat off too
... especially as much of the praise gushed forth in 2008, e.g. Ballyfermot's new pool complex a positive legacy of the boom

Given the lost money... I'd expect a robust architect's report explaining what really went down ...

cyp
More waste under Tierney's watch?
 

Happycamping

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Oh it goes on in both arenas. Capital development needs substantial contingencies. Part of the nature of the beast.

But we are missing accountability_both public and private. Corporate structures allow malfeasance disguised as misfeasance off the hook. The courts are designed via cost to prevent justice and Mandarins build their power empires in and with their political masters (pun) . We are at a bad place in history.
There's substantial contingencies and then there is 50% over budget. Its crazy. I work in the private sector. If I agreed to do a job and then asked for 50% extra I can imagine the answer I would get. And I know how little work I would get going forward. Someone needs to be held accountable.
 

PBP voter

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But! But! But!

The young people in Ballyfermot have nothing to do. It's not their fault they end up on drugs.

Yeah. Lets ignore all the sports and social clubs they have. :roll:
 

Analyzer

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Dublin Sh1tty Council squandering public money ?
 

cyberianpan

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Public tendering rules are quite strict - often the most mendacious achieves the lowest cost and wins ... cue "over runs"

Surprise site visits and outright undercover techniques (e.g. back channeling a sub contractor) - are essential in any €1m+ project

What is of concern to me though is
(1) Just how long the powers that be kicked the can down the road: see the lovely writeups they got at the time ? Also by now, locals will be wedded to what they have, and will be unlikely to say a bad thing

(2) That it held out until just after the GE ... very, very convenient

cyp

cyp
 

Absurdo

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Public tendering rules are quite strict - often the most mendacious achieves the lowest cost and wins ... cue "over runs"

Surprise site visits and outright undercover techniques (e.g. back channeling a sub contractor) - are essential in any €1m+ project

What is of concern to me though is
(1) Just how long the powers that be kicked the can down the road: see the lovely writeups they got at the time ? Also by now, locals will be wedded to what they have, and will be unlikely to say a bad thing

(2) That it held out until just after the GE ... very, very convenient

cyp

cyp
Yes the rules are strict but it doesn't mean they are fit for purpose. Contracts are exclusive and over long periods so if factors change you rarely benefit. Broadband contracts in the public service are a case in point. And let us never forget the M3 motorway contract.

Meanwhile City Czar Keegan is channelling the sinister fringe for providing for the homeless. Amazing how these characters protect their space. And without any effective political oversight. The council is scared of their ************************e of him.
 

BACKTOBASICS

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I wonder what he ought to have done differently?

A lot of things.

He should have kept his eye on the ball (job done on time at a value for money cost)

Ensure procurement procedures, costs, and standards met and adhered to.

Progress and cost reports at short regular intervals.

Did the terms of the tender contract protect the taxpayer from being hit for extra costs when things got out of hand?

Is there something amiss with the National Tender Procurement process?

Accept responsibility and the consequences for the over run.


As the Co. Councillors are elected by the public, and have somehow given these City managers carte blanche to do what their ego tells them, they all should be roped in by the Minister in charge, as it appears the Co.Councillors have lost all control and are giving the City Managers a free hand, and this does not bode well for democracy and accountability to the taxpayer.

This is not the first time for this carry on - people may remember the, Poolbeg, Dun Laoghaire Library, and a few years back, Redmond. episodes.
 
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