Bankers

A view from England

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I've just read this article in the Irish Times.
Banks accused of deceiving Nama - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010
I'm really struggling to comprehend why your bankers are not in prison yet. Are your judiciary so inept that they been unable to press prosecution aginst these criminals? Why is Sean Fitz in the USA and seemingly untouchable from Irish justice?
As the IMF began to go through the books and expose the lies, corruption and downright criminality of your bankers, politicians and businessmen and women, how are you containing your anger? Bloody hell, our students were out last week, 50000 of them, marching over a few pound rise in fees! You are sitting their letting your politicans and criminals walk all over you. And for me what is really telling is the reaction of the other political parties who are hardly being active in the challenges to the Government and the bankers.
Am I alone with my view here? Why is no-one challenging the law to go after these people?
 


Sync

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If you read any media articles or threads here on the matter, or previous investigations into corporate malfeasance you'd know the complexities involved in these investigations.

If you read any media articles or threads here on the matter you'd know that Sean Fitzpatrick isn't living in the US.

If you read any media articles or threads here on the matter you'd know that the investigators announced just 2 days ago what the status of their work.



If you'd bothered to do even a cursory search you'd have found the dozens of threads here dealing with your question. Perhaps if you'd read more you wouldn't be struggling so much.
 

Cael

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I've just read this article in the Irish Times.
Banks accused of deceiving Nama - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010
I'm really struggling to comprehend why your bankers are not in prison yet. Are your judiciary so inept that they been unable to press prosecution aginst these criminals? Why is Sean Fitz in the USA and seemingly untouchable from Irish justice?
As the IMF began to go through the books and expose the lies, corruption and downright criminality of your bankers, politicians and businessmen and women, how are you containing your anger? Bloody hell, our students were out last week, 50000 of them, marching over a few pound rise in fees! You are sitting their letting your politicans and criminals walk all over you. And for me what is really telling is the reaction of the other political parties who are hardly being active in the challenges to the Government and the bankers.
Am I alone with my view here? Why is no-one challenging the law to go after these people?
Fine Gael have a great plan - to privatise even more of the economy, and put us even more under the jackboot of these criminals.
 

slx

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It is taking a long time to prosecute. However, the cases are incredibly complex.

There have been plenty of cases in the City of London over the years where prosecutions have not come about too.

E.g. who has been prosecuted over HBOS ??
 

Pauli

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I've just read this article in the Irish Times.
Banks accused of deceiving Nama - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010
I'm really struggling to comprehend why your bankers are not in prison yet. Are your judiciary so inept that they been unable to press prosecution aginst these criminals? Why is Sean Fitz in the USA and seemingly untouchable from Irish justice?
As the IMF began to go through the books and expose the lies, corruption and downright criminality of your bankers, politicians and businessmen and women, how are you containing your anger? Bloody hell, our students were out last week, 50000 of them, marching over a few pound rise in fees! You are sitting their letting your politicans and criminals walk all over you. And for me what is really telling is the reaction of the other political parties who are hardly being active in the challenges to the Government and the bankers.
Am I alone with my view here? Why is no-one challenging the law to go after these people?

How dare you? Take back that slur!!! Sean Fitzpatrick is NOT in the USA. It is David Drumm who is in the USA. Sean Fitzpatrick is in France!!
 

truthflyer

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I've just read this article in the Irish Times.
Banks accused of deceiving Nama - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010
I'm really struggling to comprehend why your bankers are not in prison yet. Are your judiciary so inept that they been unable to press prosecution aginst these criminals? Why is Sean Fitz in the USA and seemingly untouchable from Irish justice?
As the IMF began to go through the books and expose the lies, corruption and downright criminality of your bankers, politicians and businessmen and women, how are you containing your anger? Bloody hell, our students were out last week, 50000 of them, marching over a few pound rise in fees! You are sitting their letting your politicans and criminals walk all over you. And for me what is really telling is the reaction of the other political parties who are hardly being active in the challenges to the Government and the bankers.
Am I alone with my view here? Why is no-one challenging the law to go after these people?
+1
 

Libero

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slx said:
It is taking a long time to prosecute. However, the cases are incredibly complex.
Market manipulation cases can be fairly complex. Commercial fraud cases can be fairly complex.

What's not so complex is when an officer of a bank has a record of payments against a particular loan (or set of loans), showing a certain level of non-repayment, and that officer (with or without others) chooses not to communicate that fact to NAMA and instead misleads or lies to that Agency, so as to secure a higher payment from NAMA to his bank in respect of the loan(s).

Really, that sort of thing isn't especially complex at all.

What is perhaps more complex is the question of why the Chair of NAMA is merely speculating about reporting such behaviour to An Garda Síochána when, under the NAMA Act, this behaviour is a criminal offence and the Agency is under a statutory duty to report it to the Guards.
 

truthflyer

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If you read any media articles or threads here on the matter, or previous investigations into corporate malfeasance you'd know the complexities involved in these investigations.

If you read any media articles or threads here on the matter you'd know that Sean Fitzpatrick isn't living in the US.

If you read any media articles or threads here on the matter you'd know that the investigators announced just 2 days ago what the status of their work.



If you'd bothered to do even a cursory search you'd have found the dozens of threads here dealing with your question. Perhaps if you'd read more you wouldn't be struggling so much.
Why does Ireland have such an excessive amount of Gombeen’s?

You need hanging outside the Dail with the rest of them
 

He3

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What is perhaps more complex is the question of why the Chair of NAMA is merely speculating about reporting such behaviour to An Garda Síochána when, under the NAMA Act, this behaviour is a criminal offence and the Agency is under a statutory duty to report it to the Guards.
Bullseye.
 

Aspherical123

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I've just read this article in the Irish Times.
Banks accused of deceiving Nama - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010
I'm really struggling to comprehend why your bankers are not in prison yet. Are your judiciary so inept that they been unable to press prosecution aginst these criminals? Why is Sean Fitz in the USA and seemingly untouchable from Irish justice?
As the IMF began to go through the books and expose the lies, corruption and downright criminality of your bankers, politicians and businessmen and women, how are you containing your anger? Bloody hell, our students were out last week, 50000 of them, marching over a few pound rise in fees! You are sitting their letting your politicans and criminals walk all over you. And for me what is really telling is the reaction of the other political parties who are hardly being active in the challenges to the Government and the bankers.
Am I alone with my view here? Why is no-one challenging the law to go after these people?

I recon its because any court cases could be seriously embarrassing for some politicians who they would most likely make accusations against.
 

Sync

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What is perhaps more complex is the question of why the Chair of NAMA is merely speculating about reporting such behaviour to An Garda Síochána when, under the NAMA Act, this behaviour is a criminal offence and the Agency is under a statutory duty to report it to the Guards.
Yup. I'm not sure what the breakdown of duties is, but someone needs to be reporting this. IIRC it's not down to NAMA themselves to do it, by reporting it here they've effectively performed their duty and it's up to the Govt to pursue now. Which they clearly should.
 

Skrynesaver

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Market manipulation cases can be fairly complex. Commercial fraud cases can be fairly complex.

What's not so complex is when an officer of a bank has a record of payments against a particular loan (or set of loans), showing a certain level of non-repayment, and that officer (with or without others) chooses not to communicate that fact to NAMA and instead misleads or lies to that Agency, so as to secure a higher payment from NAMA to his bank in respect of the loan(s).

Really, that sort of thing isn't especially complex at all.

What is perhaps more complex is the question of why the Chair of NAMA is merely speculating about reporting such behaviour to An Garda Síochána when, under the NAMA Act, this behaviour is a criminal offence and the Agency is under a statutory duty to report it to the Guards.
And therein lies an interesting question, I respect Daly's ability as he did an excellent job in Revenue but why, when he has documentary evidence of misrepresentation, aren't prosecutions being brought against these individuals?
 

dubboy

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I recon its because any court cases could be seriously embarrassing for some politicians who they would most likely make accusations against.
Has to be this imo, it's embarrassing that there's been absolutely nothing done so far.
 

hammer

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High paid public servants seem to have a tendency to blame the bankers for everything.

Where were they the regulators ( "fair play to you willie" ), the central bank, the dept of finance when the banks were over-lending to an unsustainable property bubble.

Why aren`t they also in the dock?

What did the DOF know. What did the Minister of Finance know.

They knew everything about what was going on. Its just hidden from the public :(
 

imokyrok

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White collar crime in the US doesn't seem to take as long to come to court. Enron, Madoff etc. Those of us in our middle years can remember years of tribunals going back to the Beef Tribunal and precious little outcome for all that "investigation".
 

Sync

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White collar crime in the US doesn't seem to take as long to come to court. Enron, Madoff etc.
Yes they did. The gleeful ignorance displayed by people on this subject never fails to amaze.

Enron collapsed in 2001, the investigation began in 2001, the trial was in 2006.

Madoff was investigated for over 10 years with no results. They never got any results until his son turned him in.

Those of us in our middle years can remember years of tribunals going back to the Beef Tribunal and precious little outcome for all that "investigation".
That's because Irish tribunals are all worthless.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Yes they did. The gleeful ignorance displayed by people on this subject never fails to amaze.

Enron collapsed in 2001, the investigation began in 2001, the trial was in 2006.

Madoff was investigated for over 10 years with no results. They never got any results until his son turned him in.



That's because Irish tribunals are all worthless.
Just to back up Sync's point above:

I want to see these people proscuted the same as everyone else if the transactions they engaged in are proved to be illegal. However as an accountant I would say given the scale and scope of the invetigation that it could take a couple of years at least to bring all the data together into a viable case.

When a financial crime is perpatrated at this level of seinority you are dealing with people who know the system, and how to hide irregularities in the accounts. While a lot of the transactions that have been made public to date are certainly not ethical, proving them to be illegal and building a watertight case is another matter entirely.
 

He3

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Just to back up Sync's point above:

I want to see these people proscuted the same as everyone else if the transactions they engaged in are proved to be illegal. However as an accountant I would say given the scale and scope of the invetigation that it could take a couple of years at least to bring all the data together into a viable case.

When a financial crime is perpatrated at this level of seinority you are dealing with people who know the system, and how to hide irregularities in the accounts. While a lot of the transactions that have been made public to date are certainly not ethical, proving them to be illegal and building a watertight case is another matter entirely.
That assumes a functioning investigatory system. We do not have one, because this government carefully sabotaged any move in that direction years ago.

http://www.politics.ie/justice/45664-crippling-whitecollar-crimebusters-how-fianna-fail-did.html
 

Oldira1

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Oct 2, 2008
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I've just read this article in the Irish Times.
Banks accused of deceiving Nama - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 19, 2010
I'm really struggling to comprehend why your bankers are not in prison yet. Are your judiciary so inept that they been unable to press prosecution aginst these criminals? Why is Sean Fitz in the USA and seemingly untouchable from Irish justice?
As the IMF began to go through the books and expose the lies, corruption and downright criminality of your bankers, politicians and businessmen and women, how are you containing your anger? Bloody hell, our students were out last week, 50000 of them, marching over a few pound rise in fees! You are sitting their letting your politicans and criminals walk all over you. And for me what is really telling is the reaction of the other political parties who are hardly being active in the challenges to the Government and the bankers.
Am I alone with my view here? Why is no-one challenging the law to go after these people?
No offense but 800 hundred effing years of conquest,slaughter and plunder by our nearest neighbour has made our people a bunch of compliant sheep. We deserve our pain in many ways for not standing up when we knew what was going on. For years we have thrived on the cute hoor culture...vote in the gobshyte that gets the ould pot-holes mended etc and ignore the national picture. Even now shysters like The Bull,O'Dea,Lowery,Healey-Rae,Ring,Flynn,Sexton etc will probably all be elected even as our independence is being stolen. People like Gilmore and Kenny stood and promised us that Europe was a friend and had no interest in our tax rates and now we see those so called friends use our difficulties to their own advantage.
I bet the IMF/EU will force us to sell Bord Gais as the own the infracture for piping the corrib gas once its gets onshore. You don't hink Shell will be a bidder? We will sell our childrens future to placate our so called allies.
We are being raped and plundered again with the compliance of our major political parties. Bastards the lot of them.
 


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