Banks fight mortgage code

Ulster-Lad

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BANKS are fighting to keep the pressure on hard-pressed homeowners by resisting proposed new rules to protect mortgage holders.

They have written to the Financial Regulator claiming that mortgage holders will abuse the code he is planning to impose on financial institutions.
Under the proposals there are guarantees that homeowners who do a deal with their lender won't have their homes repossessed. The code also prevents banks taking customers off trackers mortgages and putting them on more expensive variable rates.
Banks fight mortgage code - Property & Mortgages, Personal Finance - Independent.ie

These banks seem to forget it is the people of this country that own them. They are losing money with tracker mortgages and have been trying to get people off them.

Now they are saying the people in the country can't be trusted as we will spoof them in this code. What have they done to us over the course of the last several years?
 


A view from England

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Banks fight mortgage code - Property & Mortgages, Personal Finance - Independent.ie

These banks seem to forget it is the people of this country that own them. They are losing money with tracker mortgages and have been trying to get people off them.

Now they are saying the people in the country can't be trusted as we will spoof them in this code. What have they done to us over the course of the last several years?
If the banks cannot make any money then the people will need to continue to support them. These tracker motgages are a joke. Whilst the individuals who have them are making a killing, the taxpayer as a whole is having to pay more to support the banks. I don't have any sympathy per se for the banks, many of them have been run by economically stupid idiots on behalf of corrupt politicians and greedy developers. However, until the nettle is grasped and the general populius starts to understand that without the banks there are no new cars, now investment, no houses etc and that banks need to make money in order to lend it, the taxpayer is going to be paying the bill for these artificially low mortgages.
 
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Do you honestly think that if the banks that are currently here would not be replaced if they failed. Other banks would come in to fill the void.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Banks fight mortgage code - Property & Mortgages, Personal Finance - Independent.ie

These banks seem to forget it is the people of this country that own them. They are losing money with tracker mortgages and have been trying to get people off them.

Now they are saying the people in the country can't be trusted as we will spoof them in this code. What have they done to us over the course of the last several years?
The assumption that the people "own" the banks is sadly false, and if you talk to senior bankers I think they believe that the events of the past two years actually demonstrates that the banks own us - like a bunch of cows crazing at our desks and factory floors throughout the month to be brought in every so often to be milked, either by the Rev Com or through excessive bank charges, interest rates, etc.

Sadly the government has done nothing for the general population, while going through hoops to support and protect the bankers, so there has been nothing to demonstrate they give two fe*ks about the banks customers.
 

A view from England

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Do you honestly think that if the banks that are currently here would not be replaced if they failed. Other banks would come in to fill the void.
And do you think those banks would give you a mortgage at 1%? Current rates in Ireland should be about 4%-5% in order for the banks to refinance. The ECB rate is too low for Ireland (again).
 

Sync

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There's a decision to be made here, and the Govt have been a bit dishonest in their efforts to avoid the discussion around it.

Either we can allow debt forgiveness and ridiculously leniant terms for repayment, thus seeing far less reposessions but more public money into the banks and less viable entities as a result.

Or we allow people who freely entered into contracts see those contracts enforced, meaning less public money, more viable banks and more repossessions.

I've a few mortgages. I "own" the banks as much as my neighbour who decided to hold off investing "owns" the banks. Why should my neighbour pay for the financial decision I freely entered? If I hold on and sell for a profit what cut will he get? Why should he suffer?

Agree on the tracker offers though. I have a contract with the banks. I don't call them every day asking to redraw up terms, don't bother me every day trying to do the same.
 

Aindriu

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And do you think those banks would give you a mortgage at 1%? Current rates in Ireland should be about 4%-5% in order for the banks to refinance. The ECB rate is too low for Ireland (again).
What do you care and what has it to do with you anyway? You are not in the Eurozone are you so it matters not one jot to you what rate the ECB set for Ireland. :rolleyes:
 

A view from England

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What do you care and what has it to do with you anyway? You are not in the Eurozone are you so it matters not one jot to you what rate the ECB set for Ireland. :rolleyes:
It matters to the rest of the EU that Ireland does not default on it's obligations. If Irish banks fail it affects the UK (and Germany etc) and therefore me so I have a vested interest in Irish banks getting back on track and becoming properly refinanced. I see the banks struggling to survive. I see the Government having to borrow money in order to support the banks at 5% on the bond market yet the people who recklessly borrowed for their big fancy houses are getting away with 1%. This is wrong and unfair. So look outside Ireland and see the bigger picture. If the ECB had set the right rate for Ireland when you joined the Euro instead of the ludicrously low rate you actually had then the banks would not be in the mess they are in now.
 

Ulster-Lad

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. If the ECB had set the right rate for Ireland when you joined the Euro instead of the ludicrously low rate you actually had then the banks would not be in the mess they are in now.
The ECB did not set a rate for Ireland. They set a rate for all of the Eurozone.
 

Ulster-Lad

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Thereby setting a rate for Ireland.
I have argued (and continue to do so) that the Euro and the ECB has been a disaster for this country. That is a topic for another thread. This thread is about the banks attempting to dilute the code proposed by the regulator to protect mortgage holders. ;)
 

hammer

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If the banks cannot make any money then the people will need to continue to support them. These tracker motgages are a joke. Whilst the individuals who have them are making a killing, the taxpayer as a whole is having to pay more to support the banks. I don't have any sympathy per se for the banks, many of them have been run by economically stupid idiots on behalf of corrupt politicians and greedy developers. However, until the nettle is grasped and the general populius starts to understand that without the banks there are no new cars, now investment, no houses etc and that banks need to make money in order to lend it, the taxpayer is going to be paying the bill for these artificially low mortgages.
Thank God for tracker mortgages or there would be people in more desperate situations. No money No funny :)
 

FreshStart

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I love the accusation that we are all sitting in these big fancy houses with ridiculously low mortgage rates. The fact is the ECB rate is still at 1% as of from yesterday. This is because the rest of the Eurozone is still in recession. Even Trichet recognizes that increases at this time could plunge the European economy into a double dip recession. Trust me, these Eurocrats are not known for their charity.
Conversely, our lowest variable rates are about 3.2%. Irish banks subjected their customers to two 0.5% hikes in the last six months alone and that is on top of the bailout money.
Clearly, the Irish banks are on their last legs. They cannot refinance because they are not actually lending anymore to businesses and customers. They are just sitting around like spoilt trust funds waiting for Daddy Lenihan to bail them out.
Those that did take the plunge did so under different times when you couldn't save as much as properties were rising. They had many reasons but primarily it was to purchase a home for their children, remember them, the next generation that we've screwed.
This Code will prevent foreclosures and that is good for stability overall. Personally, I would prefer to see a write off of about one third the value of property at the time of purchase, particularly with property purchased in the last seven years of the Celtic Tiger. I feel we need a year zero, dust off the cobwebs and start again from fresh.
However, our current Fianna Failers do not understand anything about representing the electorate's interests. Not only do they pursue neo-liberal politics but they are also Darwinist in their approach.
The banks meanwhile continue to treat their customers with contempt.
I repeat, you cannot get blood out of a stone.
For those straddled with mortgages and have a chance to emigrate, I advocate a cessation of mortgage payments for the next year or two. Save your money and stockpile. Look after yourself because the government and bankers certainly won't.:mad:
 

Libero

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FreshStart said:
They are just sitting around like spoilt trust funds waiting for Daddy Lenihan to bail them out.
Looking at your post though, it seems like the banks aren't the only ones waiting for Daddy Lenihan to bail them out for regrettable property finance decisions, right?

What else is your proposed mortgage debt write-off, other than a proposal for the rest of Irish taxpayers to subsidise your mortgage?
You recognise that Irish banks are knackered, so the only way they can afford to enter into wholescale debt forgiveness is if the taxpayer compensates them.

FreshStart said:
For those straddled with mortgages and have a chance to emigrate, I advocate a cessation of mortgage payments for the next year or two. Save your money and stockpile. Look after yourself because the government and bankers certainly won't.
You mightn't realise it, but charmless guff like that only makes the banks' case for them, i.e. customers shouldn't be facilitated in building up large mortgage arrears while living in the property.
 

WTTR

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Such favoured elite just p.ssed on the people

For those straddled with mortgages and have a chance to emigrate, I advocate a cessation of mortgage payments for the next year or two. Save your money and stockpile. Look after yourself because the government and financiers certainly won't.:mad:
And the so called knowledge based country has walked with eyes wide open into this; but it refused to see! Now, the people are to behave like our leaders and financiers; we are f..ked!

The home owner should be the first to be rescued. They owe c.€80bn more than they should. Their mortgages should be reduced by this amount. They would then spend the savings on other essentials i.e. having kids etc. VAT of 21% is collected each time they buy something. The State would get back over €1bn each year from VAT alone. The extra spending would be a great fillip to internal trade. There would be: http://www.politics.ie/economy/129242-we-owe-brits-188-billion-surely-what-better-reason-default-4.html#post2658082
But no, our leaders do not think. They set up a situation where the Financiers let their buzzards loose on all the non-financially aware citizens who were given mortgages three and four times the long term value of their houses. The people are in disarray; the financiers act like lords of the manor, now that they have the government, EU etc on their side. Money reigns supreme! Whatever happened to that old nugget of wisdom "Money should be a means to an end, not an end in itself"? Cast aside by the anti-anything; not for anything brigade!

First we see systemic fraud in the foreclosure process. Now we’re literally seeing banks breaking into people’s homes and terrifying homeowners. The big banks claim these confrontations are a result of innocent errors. Come on! How many times are we going to force a woman to cower in her bathroom for fifteen minutes and dial 911 while a man breaks into a home, before we do something about it?
Breaking and entering does not become legal just because a big bank does it. The rule of law must apply equally to everyone. It’s long past time to halt this blatantly illegal activity. We need investigation and law enforcement, not coddling of failed institutions. We need justice for all.
More Law in the Hands of Banks: Breaking and Entering Homes in Florida « naked capitalism
Money reigns supreme! The financiers should have been brought to heal in the nineties and early 21st century, when case after case of cheating and fraud were uncovered by Revenue, legal investigations etc and no major penalty was imposed by the State. The financial regulatory regime was actually neutralised. The socially irresponsible financiers carried on to bigger things: loaded the citizen and their "lack of Christian awareness leaders" http://www.politics.ie/fine-gael/139912-gay-mitchell-circulating-iona-institute-talking-points-7.html#post3065721 with jumbo mortgages while the then top brass, the IFB etc kept the massive related commission and rode off into the sunset! Now the same politicians come to the banks, not the people's rescue. What did such favoured elite do through out history? They just give the two finger salute to the people!
It is human nature to hate those, whom you have hurt! Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus (AD 56 – AD 117)
 
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ibis

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And do you think those banks would give you a mortgage at 1%? Current rates in Ireland should be about 4%-5% in order for the banks to refinance. The ECB rate is too low for Ireland (again).
That's close to what Irish mortgage rates are, though: Mortgage Payments Calculator - First Time Buyers - Mortgage Company of Ireland

The ECB doesn't set the rates charged by banks for retail products - banks only cut close to the ECB rate when they're in competition with each other.
 

AlanDukesofMoralHazard

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I want to ask this question but am not allowed start a new thread as I'm a new user.

Due to a growing family and new job, we bought a bigger house in April 2008. We couldn't sell existing house at time so rented it out in interim. It was valued by bank valued at 265k. It is now worth 180k and rent income doesn't cover mortgage.

What are possible outcomes if I post back keys to lender and refuse to pay any more? Can you touch our current home? Because we just can't afford it. I've asked them if they'd allow us sell for 180k and owe them difference (we owe 246k) but they said no.

Looking at bondholders, bankers and Government get off scot free makes me wonder who I should continue sjovelling money into this albatross around our neck. Especially with the Anglo bill to worry about now too.

Advice? And why us everyone ignoring that this is gonna happen on the 1000s in the next two years?
 

ibis

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I want to ask this question but am not allowed start a new thread as I'm a new user.

Due to a growing family and new job, we bought a bigger house in April 2008. We couldn't sell existing house at time so rented it out in interim. It was valued by bank valued at 265k. It is now worth 180k and rent income doesn't cover mortgage.

What are possible outcomes if I post back keys to lender and refuse to pay any more? Can you touch our current home? Because we just can't afford it. I've asked them if they'd allow us sell for 180k and owe them difference (we owe 246k) but they said no.

Looking at bondholders, bankers and Government get off scot free makes me wonder who I should continue sjovelling money into this albatross around our neck. Especially with the Anglo bill to worry about now too.

Advice? And why us everyone ignoring that this is gonna happen on the 1000s in the next two years?
AFAIK, the bank will repossess your house and sell it in a fire sale manner, then chase you for the difference. There's no "get out of mortgage" route that I'm aware of. A lot of people went the 'jingle mail' route in the Eighties in the UK, and the banks were still pursuing them 20 years later.

If the bank is the same for both houses, I'm not sure they can't touch your principal residence - you'd do better to seek proper advice on that.
 


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