Banks fight mortgage code



typical

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Jul 8, 2010
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Everyone and his dog is whining about being kept in the manner to which they've become accustomed, I wish people would just go and live with the consequences of their stupid actions.

The idiots in the bank lost their money, the idiots in the government lost our money and the idiots who just had to get onto the property ladder lost their shirts, yet not a single one seems to want to have to live with the results, bankruptcy, elections and homelessness.

It really is a nation of spineless, whinging, moaning idiots. A bank who gets billions through screwing the system whinging about the fact that their customers are being offered the chance to screw them via the same systems.

In the long run, we'd be better off letting it all go to hell, year zero it that way, when the dust settles, those among us with the cop on to not have f**ked our lives and finances can then put the country back together and pay for the homeless shelters for all the sponging idiots who have been harping on for two years about how much they want us to pay for their houses, businesses and lifestyles.
 

AlanDukesofMoralHazard

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Dear typical,

I've asked them can I sell the house and owe them difference in sale price and mortgage. They say no. So what do you want to do? Keep throwing money at it when I can hardly afford milk for the kids.

I take full responsibilty for my decisions. Sick of smug tossers though who don't have debt.
 

Delarivier

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Did anybody hear the spokesman for Fitch on the RTE News at one complaining that Irish banks were being too lenient to borrowers in arrears and that there weren't enough foreclosures?

I was flabbergasted. Who runs this country anyway? (hint: it doesn't seem to be FF and the Greens). Apparently about 4.6% of mortgage holders are at least 3 months in arrears. So this raises the question: if the banks decide to get tough (or are pushed to get tough) and start putting people out of houses, what happens?

Is the State (i.e. the taxpayer - us) supposed to house all these people, who are likely to be in tens of thousands, or are they all supposed to sleep on the streets or emigrate quietly (if they can afford to)?

If that is where we are heading, 2011 could turn out to be very unpleasant indeed.
 

A view from England

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I want to ask this question but am not allowed start a new thread as I'm a new user.

Due to a growing family and new job, we bought a bigger house in April 2008. We couldn't sell existing house at time so rented it out in interim. It was valued by bank valued at 265k. It is now worth 180k and rent income doesn't cover mortgage.

What are possible outcomes if I post back keys to lender and refuse to pay any more? Can you touch our current home? Because we just can't afford it. I've asked them if they'd allow us sell for 180k and owe them difference (we owe 246k) but they said no.

Looking at bondholders, bankers and Government get off scot free makes me wonder who I should continue sjovelling money into this albatross around our neck. Especially with the Anglo bill to worry about now too.

Advice? And why us everyone ignoring that this is gonna happen on the 1000s in the next two years?
Would it be possible to rent out your current home (is it in a better area?) and move back to your old one?
 

Ulster-Lad

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Did anybody hear the spokesman for Fitch on the RTE News at one complaining that Irish banks were being too lenient to borrowers in arrears and that there weren't enough foreclosures?

I was flabbergasted. Who runs this country anyway? (hint: it doesn't seem to be FF and the Greens). Apparently about 4.6% of mortgage holders are at least 3 months in arrears. So this raises the question: if the banks decide to get tough (or are pushed to get tough) and start putting people out of houses, what happens?

Is the State (i.e. the taxpayer - us) supposed to house all these people, who are likely to be in tens of thousands, or are they all supposed to sleep on the streets or emigrate quietly (if they can afford to)?

If that is where we are heading, 2011 could turn out to be very unpleasant indeed.
There are currently 36,400 mortgage holders who are in arrears, having missed three months of payments.
Just to put a number on it there.
 

WTTR

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Can this be believed

Just to put a number on it there.
According to your numbers, there are over 790,000 mortgage holders in the State. Can this be believed?

I am not surprised at coming up with this figure. I have felt for quite a while now, that the figures the CB has; those that the banks have; stats that are publicly announced by semi-state bodies; the amount securitised; the number of Asset Backed Securities; now Fitch etc., in existence invariably never add up!
 

Ulster-Lad

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According to your numbers, there are over 790,000 mortgage holders in the State. Can this be believed?

I am not surprised at coming up with this figure. I have felt for quite a while now, that the figures the CB has; those that the banks have; stats that are publicly announced by semi-state bodies; the amount securitised; the number of Asset Backed Securities; now Fitch etc., in existence invariably never add up!
That is the number according to the article cited in the OP.
 
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How do they "chase" you though? Through the courts?

Different banks.
The bank would get a judgement against you for the whole amount then whatever it gets from sale of property it sets off against that but you will probably owe €80k and you will be responsible for ever for paying it. Don't believe the idea that moving countries extinguishes debt............it doesn't as any judgement across Europe is live in other countries.

As for thinking its another bank unfortunately the system works on basis of all banks together so while Bank A you may owe €80k to Bank B as soon as its aware will remove o/d, credit cards and log you as an at risk borrower.

Renegotiate over longer term or try Interest only or IF (though unlikely) you had equity on new property then borrow against it
 

ibis

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How do they "chase" you though? Through the courts?
Yup. The only guy I know who successfully got away with it moved from the UK to the West of Ireland and started using only the Irish version of his name.

Different banks.
If the first bank got a successful judgement against you I'm fairly sure they'd be able to establish a claim on your other property, since they'd have a claim on your assets. The court could presumably order a sale of your home, but not if that's in negative equity as well, since that would just load more debt onto you without paying back the first bank.
 
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I love the accusation that we are all sitting in these big fancy houses with ridiculously low mortgage rates. The fact is the ECB rate is still at 1% as of from yesterday. This is because the rest of the Eurozone is still in recession. Even Trichet recognizes that increases at this time could plunge the European economy into a double dip recession. Trust me, these Eurocrats are not known for their charity.
Conversely, our lowest variable rates are about 3.2%. Irish banks subjected their customers to two 0.5% hikes in the last six months alone and that is on top of the bailout money.
Clearly, the Irish banks are on their last legs. They cannot refinance because they are not actually lending anymore to businesses and customers. They are just sitting around like spoilt trust funds waiting for Daddy Lenihan to bail them out.
Those that did take the plunge did so under different times when you couldn't save as much as properties were rising. They had many reasons but primarily it was to purchase a home for their children, remember them, the next generation that we've screwed.
This Code will prevent foreclosures and that is good for stability overall. Personally, I would prefer to see a write off of about one third the value of property at the time of purchase, particularly with property purchased in the last seven years of the Celtic Tiger. I feel we need a year zero, dust off the cobwebs and start again from fresh.
However, our current Fianna Failers do not understand anything about representing the electorate's interests. Not only do they pursue neo-liberal politics but they are also Darwinist in their approach.
The banks meanwhile continue to treat their customers with contempt.
I repeat, you cannot get blood out of a stone.
For those straddled with mortgages and have a chance to emigrate, I advocate a cessation of mortgage payments for the next year or two. Save your money and stockpile. Look after yourself because the government and bankers certainly won't.:mad:
Bet you never had a mortgage.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Iceland as always is ahead of the curve.

Iceland’s banks may come under pressure to forgive about $2 billion in mortgage debt after protests this week prompted the government to consider proposals from the island’s homeowner protection group.

“The debt the banks have to write off could very well be very challenging for them,” said Economy Minister Arni Pall Arnason, in an interview in Reykjavik. “So be it. The banks have to acknowledge quickly that current debt levels are unrealistic and that timely write-offs are necessary. Full stop.”

The government is eager to show voters it is committed to reducing families’ debt burdens after the Oct. 4 unrest. The protests drew bigger crowds than in the weeks before former Prime Minister Geir H. Haarde’s administration was ousted in January 2009. The Interest Group of the Homes, which represents households demanding debt relief, says banks should write off about 200 billion kronur ($1.8 billion) in mortgage loans to help the 39 percent of homeowners who are technically insolvent.
Iceland Banks May Forgive $2 Billion After Protests (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
 

Libero

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Delarivier said:
Apparently about 4.6% of mortgage holders are at least 3 months in arrears. So this raises the question: if the banks decide to get tough (or are pushed to get tough) and start putting people out of houses, what happens?

Is the State (i.e. the taxpayer - us) supposed to house all these people, who are likely to be in tens of thousands, or are they all supposed to sleep on the streets or emigrate quietly (if they can afford to)?
What makes you think that leaving a mortgaged home means life on the streets?

Can you think of how people without a mortgage put a roof over their heads?
 

ALAN42

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Aug 23, 2009
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What makes you think that leaving a mortgaged home means life on the streets?

Can you think of how people without a mortgage put a roof over their heads?
We are a small open economy turning a corner . There is not enough houses for all of us . Some will just have to live on the streets .
 

typical

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Dear typical,

I've asked them can I sell the house and owe them difference in sale price and mortgage. They say no. So what do you want to do? Keep throwing money at it when I can hardly afford milk for the kids.

I take full responsibilty for my decisions. Sick of smug tossers though who don't have debt.
I don't have debt because I'm not stupid enough to pay 10x my yearly wages for a two bedroom shed. I'm no more smug about that than I am of the fact that I don't clean my knob with crushed glass.

The fact that you clearly entered into two mortgages without understanding the basic premise of a mortgage (a loan against your house) and an attempt to turn that mortgage into an unsecured loan (which you'll clearly run away from) is not something to boast about as if it makes you virtuous. You're not taking responsibility, you're trying to run away and hide from the debt.

The truth is, you thought that it was a great idea to have a renter paying the mortgage on one house while you lived in another, affording you a free pension, and didn't have the cop on to figure out that you wouldn't be able to afford milk for the kids if things went wrong. What do you expect, sympathy? It was a stupid, greedy plan on your part, now you're screwed, sickened.
 

Delarivier

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We are a small open economy turning a corner . There is not enough houses for all of us . Some will just have to live on the streets .
Some will end up back with parents, if they have parents who can take them in, some will be on social welfare and get rent allowance... and some will, unfortunately, fall between the cracks and may well end up on the streets.

There are plenty of unoccupied houses out there. Look at all the ghost estates! But who is going to pay the rent? The taxpayer?
 

typical

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Jul 8, 2010
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I thought you couldn't get rent allowance unless you were living in a house for six months before you apply for it.

The banks won't start into mass foreclosure though, both they and the government prefer to have the under performing loan on their books than the loss which a mass fire sale creates.
 


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