Banks in Ireland compare with troubled Italian banks in EU colour charts of non performing loans

gerhard dengler

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Yeah, we're 10 years into this crisis now. A whole fvcking decade. But the same old shills are still trotting out their garbage.
Peter gives me money to buy a home.
I start to default on my payments to Peter.

Peter sells the loan to Paul.
Instead of me owing and repaying Peter, I owe and repay Paul now.

As regards the Irish Central Bank data, they only include Peter's data. And as far as they are concerned Peter's loanbook has improved.
But Paul is owed the money instead. I have still to repay Paul.
 


Watcher2

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Peter gives me money to buy a home.
I start to default on my payments to Peter.

Peter sells the loan to Paul.
Instead of me owing and repaying Peter, I owe and repay Paul now.

As regards the Irish Central Bank data, they only include Peter's data. And as far as they are concerned Peter's loanbook has improved.
But Paul is owed the money instead. I have still to repay Paul.
And some other loans, Peter restructures. Those loans don't appear as non performing even though I may have agreed to extend the term and pay interest only.

Bank of Ireland, the poster boy for the banking world in Ireland because it wasn't fully nationalised, has its share price still down at 18c. I got out at c. 36c three years ago. We're 100 times that value 10 years ago. Even all the economic "recovery" FG are so find of shilling hasn't lifted the banks. It wasn't too long ago they said the banks were a litmus test for the economy....or vice versa.

It's too bloody funny....well, it would b if it actually wasn't so serious.
 

HarshBuzz

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Peter gives me money to buy a home.
I start to default on my payments to Peter.

Peter sells the loan to Paul.
Instead of me owing and repaying Peter, I owe and repay Paul now.

As regards the Irish Central Bank data, they only include Peter's data. And as far as they are concerned Peter's loanbook has improved.
But Paul is owed the money instead. I have still to repay Paul.
Sigh.

Have a look at how the ICB gathers its figures. Your paranoia notwithstanding.
 

gerhard dengler

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Great.

The data only includes those institutions (and loans) within the Irish Central Bank reporting.
The data does not include loans transferred to institutions outside Irish Central Bank reporting.

(I actually went to the bother of contacting the Irish Central Bank asking them about Mars Capital's purchase of PTSB's Springboard bad loan portfolio. I asked them if data from that portfolio would be included in future in the arrears data that the Irish Central Bank publishes.
The central bank confirmed that it wouldn't. So where are these arrears being reported? They're not. So the arrears remain, they're just not reported in the figures issued by this state).
 

Watcher2

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Sigh.

Have a look at how the ICB gathers its figures. Your paranoia notwithstanding.
Great.

The data only includes those institutions (and loans) within the Irish Central Bank reporting.
The data does not include loans transferred to institutions outside Irish Central Bank reporting.

(I actually went to the bother of contacting the Irish Central Bank asking them about Mars Capital's purchase of PTSB's Springboard bad loan portfolio. I asked them if data from that portfolio would be included in future in the arrears data that the Irish Central Bank publishes.
The central bank confirmed that it wouldn't. So where are these arrears being reported? They're not. So the arrears remain, they're just not reported in the figures issued by this state).
So HB, tell us about those NPL performance stats you were so eager to discuss before:roll:
 

Patslatt1

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It's over 10 years since the banking crisis started...

If nothing else the last 10 years has proven how resilient the global economic charade is and how willing we all are to participate in it...

What's the alternative?

Mayhem.

I've given up worrying about the f***in' banks... they're a law unto themselves and they're indulged relentlessly...

Scumbags for the most part...

If they collapse they collapse and if the global economic system implodes it implodes... but there really isn't much point in fretting about it...
You will have the the luxury of living off the land on Spanner Island if the banks collapse!
 

Watcher2

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gerhard dengler

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The same spot Drummer used get his figures I suspect.
Unless the arrears owing that were on Springboard loanbook were repaid, they remain owing. They are just not owed to PTSB, but are owed to Mars Capital instead.

And that's the catch here.

The Irish Central Bank will claim arrears have reduced because the amounts owed to PTSB have reduced.
What the Irish Central Bank are not telling you is whether or not there are still arrears on Mars Capital Springboard loans owing.

It is difficult to believe that people who could not repay PTSB are able to repay Mars Capital. But I could be wrong.
 

HarshBuzz

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Not paranoia.

Where are the arrears for the Mars Capital Springboard loans reported by the Irish Central Bank?
Have a look at this. You can't provide credit, including mortgages, without being registered....and when you're registered, you have to submit your ICB returns.

Always glad to lift the veil of ignorance. You had Watcher excited there for a minute.
 

Watcher2

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Unless the arrears owing that were on Springboard loanbook were repaid, they remain owing. They are just not owed to PTSB, but are owed to Mars Capital instead.

And that's the catch here.

The Irish Central Bank will claims arrears have reduced because the amounts owed to PTSB have reduced.
What the Irish Central Bank are not saying is whether or not there are arrears on Mars Capital Springboard loans owing.

It is difficult to believe that people who could not repay PTSB are able to repay Mars Capital. But I could be wrong.
The only way in which you are wrong is in the p.ie "I'm winning the argument no matter what" way. That is to say, in no realistic way that means anything in the real world. It's a delusional thing.
 

Patslatt1

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Maybe if they were taken into public ownership they'd do better.
Bank lending would become politicised in time with nationalised banks. India's huge state banking sector is plagued with bad loans to farmers who are a big percentage of voters and to politically connected business families.
 

Patslatt1

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Reading that article, it's actually a good news story.

Look at the trends: NPLs are reducing fast and will continue to do so as the Eurozone grows robustly. Nowhere faster than here either.
Barring an unexpected reversal in economic growth eg hard Brexit, extreme rents deterring workforce growth in Dublin
 

gerhard dengler

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Have a look at this. You can't provide credit, including mortgages, without being registered....and when you're registered, you have to submit your ICB returns.

Always glad to lift the veil of ignorance. You had Watcher excited there for a minute.
I contacted the Irish Central Bank in 2014, soon after PTSB sold it's Springboard portfolio to Mars Capital.
Irish Central Bank confirmed in 2014 that those loans would not form part of Irish Central Bank reporting.

I stated as much here on this site at 6th November 2014.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/curren...-didnt-work-out-too-bad-us-4.html#post8592805

Your link says that Mars Capita were authorised at 17th July 2017, were they authorised prior to 17th July 2017?
 

HarshBuzz

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I contacted the Irish Central Bank in 2014, soon after PTSB sold it's Springboard portfolio to Mars Capital.
Irish Central Bank confirmed in 2014 that those loans would not form part of Irish Central Bank reporting.

I stated as much here on this site at 6th November 2014.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/curren...-didnt-work-out-too-bad-us-4.html#post8592805

Your link says that Mars Capita were authorised at 17th July 2017, were they authorised prior to 17th July 2017?
Let me make this really simple.

The only types of entities who extend credit (including mortgages purchased on the secondary market) to Irish consumers are those regulated by the ICB.

Excluding backstreet illegal moneylenders, which we're clearly not talking about here.
 

HarshBuzz

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Barring an unexpected reversal in economic growth eg hard Brexit, extreme rents deterring workforce growth in Dublin
Alien invasion, North Korean nukes, Californian earthquakes etc etc...
 

Patslatt1

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Peter gives me money to buy a home.
I start to default on my payments to Peter.

Peter sells the loan to Paul.
Instead of me owing and repaying Peter, I owe and repay Paul now.

As regards the Irish Central Bank data, they only include Peter's data. And as far as they are concerned Peter's loanbook has improved.
But Paul is owed the money instead. I have still to repay Paul.
Writedowns of mortgage loans sold for less than book value reduce shareholder capital and capital ratios. That will result in dilution of equity shareholders' ownership as new share sales are required to raise capital.
 

gerhard dengler

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Let me make this really simple.

The only types of entities who extend credit (including mortgages purchased on the secondary market) to Irish consumers are those regulated by the ICB.

Excluding backstreet illegal moneylenders, which we're clearly not talking about here.
ICB confirmed to me in 2014 that the arrears sold by PTSB to Mars would not be included in their reporting, as stated here in November 2014.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/curren...-didnt-work-out-too-bad-us-4.html#post8592805

Were Mars Capita authorised prior to 17th July 2017 by the Irish Central Bank? Your link shows Mars being authorised from only 17th July 2017.
 

Patslatt1

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Great.

The data only includes those institutions (and loans) within the Irish Central Bank reporting.
The data does not include loans transferred to institutions outside Irish Central Bank reporting.

(I actually went to the bother of contacting the Irish Central Bank asking them about Mars Capital's purchase of PTSB's Springboard bad loan portfolio. I asked them if data from that portfolio would be included in future in the arrears data that the Irish Central Bank publishes.
The central bank confirmed that it wouldn't. So where are these arrears being reported? They're not. So the arrears remain, they're just not reported in the figures issued by this state).
Those loans in arrears are no longer assets of PTSB, so they don't affect the liquidity and solvency of the bank and the banking system. Credit creation is a function of the banking system which excludes non bank lenders.
 
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