Baptism Barrier Lifted

statsman

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Last night the Dáil passed the Education (Admission to Schools) Bill, thereby removing the so-called baptism barrier to school admission. Under the new law, oversubscribed schools will not, in general, be allowed to use the fact that a child is not baptised as a criterion for admission.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/law-removing-baptism-as-requirement-for-school-entry-passed-by-dáil-1.3514882

In the short term, this may not have much of an impact as most schools seem to have turned a bit of a blind eye, but in the longer term it may ell remove one incentive for non-religious parents to go through with the farce of baptising their children into a religion they have no real investment in.

Personally, I strongly welcome what is a good, necessary, small step towards proper secular education and, in the long run, a proper secular Republic.
 


Tin Foil Hat

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My local secondary school, the one I want for my kids, is CoI. We're a non religious family. This barrier still exists for us.
A half arsed job as far as we're concerned.
 

statsman

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My local secondary school, the one I want for my kids, is CoI. We're a non religious family. This barrier still exists for us.
A half arsed job as far as we're concerned.
It's a start, no more than that.
 
D

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Separation of church and state is becoming separationier.

A good move. To be welcomed.
 

GDPR

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I confirm, I was attending a Catholic school and will school some leaving cert subjects soon too.

It's not like the students in the school were catholics, most were proud atheists.
 

Lagertha

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A good first step, although clearly it doesn't apply to non Christian faith schools, as is evident in the article. It should just be honest and say that this applies to Catholic and Protestant schools but not to Muslim schools. Equality and all that.
 

Half Nelson

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Religious discrimination is now official.

Welcome to Secular Ireland.
 

Mitsui2

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Religious discrimination is now official.

Welcome to Secular Ireland.
So by your lights abolishing religious discrimination equals introducing religious discrimination.

Yep, that's pretty much how you roll all right, Half!

[EDIT: I see statsman (above) takes the same lesson from your post]
 

devoutcapitalist

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The Catholic Church can expect a modest decline in Christenings from 2019 onwards.

Question for legal eagles, could the CC or educational groups linked to the CC take a court case preventing this legislation from been enacted?
 

Lagertha

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I consider you a bit of a barometer; if it annoys you, it can't be all bad.
I'd like to see true equality, where the same rules apply to all genders, all faiths, all colours and all nationalities. I don't think anyone should have a special clause that exempts them.
 

statsman

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I'd like to see true equality, where the same rules apply to all genders, all faiths, all colours and all nationalities. I don't think anyone should have a special clause that exempts them.
As would I, but you need to deal with the major issue first, then the little ones can be mopped up in time.
 

recedite

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The Catholic Church can expect a modest decline in Christenings from 2019 onwards.

Question for legal eagles, could the CC or educational groups linked to the CC take a court case preventing this legislation from been enacted?
I'm not a lawyer, but I'll give my opinion anyway. As per the linked article...
Religious bodies had argued that banning religion as a selection criterion in admissions would breach their constitutional rights relating to religious freedom and freedom of association.
I think its a wrong headed approach because it doesn't seem to differentiate between publicly funded schools and private schools. (most so-called private schools in this country are publicly funded, but lets park that side issue for the moment).

Lets say there was a 100% privately funded RC school, IMO they would be entitled to preferentially select RC pupils. Restricting that would be an infringement of their freedom of association. It gets even worse if the state only applies the restriction to one religion. Muslims and protestants would still be allowed to have schools for "their own" people, which would be unfair.

The situation with publicly funded schools is different, but fairly straightforward IMO. All publicly funded schools should be equally accessible to all members of the public, and also suitable for all. That means no preferential admissions policy, and no religious indoctrination (or "ethos")

Bruton's proposal applies to RC schools but not to those of other religions. That in itself is discriminatory and possibly unconstitutional, but he thinks he can get it through. Arguably, it could be described as "positive discrimination" which is sometimes considered to be "not discrimination". Personally, I'm not a fan of any kind of state sponsored discrimination, including "positive" discrimination.
 

GDPR

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I'd like to see true equality, where the same rules apply to all genders, all faiths, all colours and all nationalities. I don't think anyone should have a special clause that exempts them.
Yes but you hate me and want to me to leave. You said on a previous thread that people will wake up and throw the likes of me out.

When I can expect the launch of your political party?
 

Catalpast

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Last night the Dáil passed the Education (Admission to Schools) Bill, thereby removing the so-called baptism barrier to school admission. Under the new law, oversubscribed schools will not, in general, be allowed to use the fact that a child is not baptised as a criterion for admission.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/law-removing-baptism-as-requirement-for-school-entry-passed-by-dáil-1.3514882

In the short term, this may not have much of an impact as most schools seem to have turned a bit of a blind eye, but in the longer term it may ell remove one incentive for non-religious parents to go through with the farce of baptising their children into a religion they have no real investment in.

Personally, I strongly welcome what is a good, necessary, small step towards proper secular education and, in the long run, a proper secular Republic.
Its just more Anti Catholic Bigotry

- let all schools be treated the same or not at all

I hope the Church grows a pair and makes a legal challenge against it

Its a fundamental point of the Constitution (& EU Law I am sure) that the State cannot discriminate against or in favour of one religion over another....
 

CatullusV

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Its just more Anti Catholic Bigotry

- let all schools be treated the same or not at all

I hope the Church grows a pair and makes a legal challenge against it

Its a fundamental point of the Constitution (& EU Law I am sure) that the State cannot discriminate against or in favour of one religion over another....
Would it be too radical in your view to suggest that schools which are funded by the state treat their potential students with equality at thet front of their thinking?

- eh?

- eh?

Do you like the smell of those onions?

-eh?

-eh?
 

Catalpast

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Would it be too radical in your view to suggest that schools which are funded by the state treat their potential students with equality at thet front of their thinking?

- eh?

- eh?

Do you like the smell of those onions?

-eh?

-eh?
I think your inhaling more than Onions this afternoon me ol flower....
 

CatullusV

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I think your inhaling more than Onions this afternoon me ol flower....
Non-response

- is noted.

You seem to think that equality should apply to the level of the schools

- rather than to the level of the pupils

- who are availing of a state-funded service.
 

Conor_Myers

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Now that this nonsense has been "dealt with" can we expect the Minister to get on with the job of supplying enough school places for all kids so they won't have to be discriminated against at all, no matter how fairly that discrimination operates?

Can we boll*x.
 

gerhard dengler

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Discrimination can be in favour of something, as opposed to discriminating against something.

This government feels emboldened.
 


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