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Barack Obama shows his true colours


Defeated Romanticist

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Barack Obama has quite definatively shown his true colours most explicity to date recently at a fundraiser in San Francisco. In it he referred to the people of small town America in the following terms:

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html said:
The Huffington Post[/url]]You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
In the heat increasingly bitter Democratic presidential nomination battle, these disgraceful comments by Obama have been leaped on by Hillary Clinton as evidence of the "elitist", "demeaning" and "out of touch". The McCain camp's spokesman Steve Schmidt said of the comments: "It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," Schmidt said. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

This will obviously be a massivly embarrassing faux paus by Obama. He has revealed himself as not the candidate of change, but an old fashioned American liberal with a negetive view of the American people. With this in mind it is not surprising that Obama made these comments in San Francisco and not in the areas he spoke of. One could not imagine them going down so well there. He has form for tailoring his message and his tastes to suit the audience. The candidate who transcends race attends a church enthraled with Black separatism for twenty years. The candidate whose campaign claims he will rebuild America's industries with narrow-minded protectionism in public assures those same foreigners that they have nothing to fear from him on that score. And now this. Thankfully, he may have just commited political suicide, if not in the primaries, then in the November election.
 


FutureTaoiseach

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Imagine how damaging these sort of gaffes will be in a Presidential Election in November, with a far more conservative electorate.
 

NotDevsSon

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Yet another example of Obama's ineptitude. He has had the easiest of easy rides in the media, Clinton has made tactical errors, and yet this keeps happening to him. Instead of making a clean break with a preacher whose views would frighten away millions in the presidential election, he delivered a rather wishy-washy non-disowning disowning. He was caught out on NAFTA, is now desperately changing his stances on gun control, abortion (at this stage he has achieved the unique distinction of uniting pro-life and pro-choice campaigners both of whom now say they don't trust a single thing he says, having had bad experiences with him) and withdrawal from Iraq (where a definite withdrawal within a set timespan has now become a sort of withdrawal at some stage but not actually actually a withdrawal from Iraq, merely back to baracks in Iraq), etc.

His lack of coherence was shown last week in an interview with a gay magazine where he said that he favoured scrapping "don't ask, don't tell" on the issue of gay soldiers but then when asked would he instruct the army to take gay soldiers, said he wouldn't. So in other words, he opposes 'don't ask. Don't tell' as discriminatory, but won't say what he proposes to replace it with, saying that the army should accept gay soldiers but they don't have to (whatever that means).

No wonder Republicans last January were saying privately that Obama was the candidate they wanted the Democrats to run. He is incoherent, superficial, goes to pieces when challenged on policy details, and as the primaries showed, does badly in the key states they Democrats must win, and is in the lead for the nomination through notoriously undemocratic caucuses (which as the sort of dodgy democracy Mugabe would love to adopt) and wins in states that a Democrat hasn't a snowballs chance in hell of winning come November.

In the last couple of days three uncommitted super delegates, who said they had been leaning towards Obama, have told US newspapers that they are "increasingly worried" about his candidacy and have severe doubts about whether he could win in November. Rumoured endorsements have failed to appear in the last week, and there has been a notable cooling in the relationship between Richardson and Obama. Oprah has also distanced herself from him. Obama is showing signs of being a new Dukakis, but Dukakis only began to lose it in September 1988, not this early. At this stage if he is the nominee he has a growing chance of facing the sort of wipeout Mondale faced in 1984, with key Democratic states showing worrying signs in poll numbers, and the Republican states he said he would pick up showing him facing 20-30% losses to McCain.
 

ibis

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Mind you, he could well be right. Not that that counts for anything in politics.
 

NotDevsSon

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ibis said:
Mind you, he could well be right. Not that that counts for anything in politics.
As you know, Ibis, even where some voters are bitter and twisted gobshites (and anyone who has ever canvassed will meet tons of that sort) you can never say it. Obama's stupidity was to say it. People won't thank him for being honest. They will be offended by what he said about them and their neighbours.
 

john geraghty

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I actually think that Obama is on the mark on this one. It's a very socialist take on why voters turn more to the right and to blame other sectors of society.
 

Defeated Romanticist

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john geraghty said:
I actually think that Obama is on the mark on this one. It's a very socialist take on why voters turn more to the right and to blame other sectors of society.
Or maybe its because the right defends the rights(guns, marriage) and ideals(obeying the law) that existed as long as America did.

Yes ibis I'm sure you can get a few talking heads for the media to justify Barack Obama's snobbery but on the whole it's just simplistic bigotry, elitism and irrationality like the main of American Liberalism and European social democracy.
 

ibis

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Defeated Romanticist said:
[quote="john geraghty":ta50lh4j]I actually think that Obama is on the mark on this one. It's a very socialist take on why voters turn more to the right and to blame other sectors of society.
Or maybe its because the right defends the rights(guns, marriage) and ideals(obeying the law) that existed as long as America did.

Yes ibis I'm sure you can get a few talking heads for the media to justify Barack Obama's snobbery but on the whole it's just simplistic bigotry, elitism and irrationality like the main of American Liberalism and European social democracy.[/quote:ta50lh4j]

Why on earth would one need meejits when we have people like your good self to demonstrate the truth of the proposition?
 

Squire Allworthy

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Not the cleverest thing to say.

What a mental picture he must have of small town America. Bitter Bible thumpers with guns who despise anyone form over the hill. Suppose they play banjos, have 6 fingers and like to hear people squeal like pigs. But there again anyone who has spent 20 year listening to Rev Wright should feel right at home.
 

lostexpectation

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Squire Allworthy

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The problem with the whole lot of them is amid all the smugness, erudite waffle, outrage, concede and arrogance I don't see much substance that would bring back one single job to these communities. The fall of the dollar will probably do more good and create more jobs than whoever is the next President.
 

Thac0man

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john geraghty said:
I actually think that Obama is on the mark on this one.
If by that you mean that Obama has demonstrated the same distain Socialists have for the blue collar working classes, then you are right. But it is at least something he shares with many of his supporters.

He has shown his true colours and if he gets the Democrat nomination, he is doomed to fall foul of the little people come the presidential election.
 

Blue Tide

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Everything he said there makes a lot of sense to me. Wait for the long lingering recession to kick in here and we'll see much anti-immigrant sentiment and a gravitation back to the Catholic church among the working class. I worked in a local chipper in Killareney during my first year of college and the hatred of immigrants was extremely evident among the drunken mob and the less educated, sober, middle aged people. I fear this will only get worse as low skill manufacturing and construction jobs are cut. Still though, only a politically naive fool would make such a comment at this stage of the democratic race.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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The fact that there may be some truth in what he said is neither here nor there. The real question is whether it is what you say if you want to get elected. And this is not it. And he will deffo not be elected. 100%. His comments are especially damaging in that they play into the traditional Republican stereotype on what the Democrats and liberals feel about America, namely that they hate it and that they look down on religious people and want to take away your guns. This speech may turn out to be a political 'suicide note'. Americans are very patriotic and won't elect someone who is seeing as doing down the country. For example in the 1988 election, one factor that damaged the Dukakis campaign was a GOP lie that Kitty Dukakis had burned an American flag during the Vietnam war.
 

Bom

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It is obvious (to anyone who has been in small-town, mid-western America) that Obama shows great undertanding here of life in such places, the pressures that exist for the local populations, and the how these manifest themselves. Far from being elitist or 'removed' from their experience he is the only candidate who has shown this level of insight regarding what has happened, over time, to small-town America. That he has done so with such sympathy, honesty, and understanding is even more to his credit. From Illinois, Obama obviously understands the conditions that precipitated Farm Aid and all that has happened to these communities subsequently.

And, for those who are still confused, with just the slightest research you will find that Obama is not a socialist (nor is he a Muslim).
 

A_man_about_a_dog

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Defeated Romanticist said:
Barack Obama has quite definatively shown his true colours most explicity to date recently at a fundraiser in San Francisco. In it he referred to the people of small town America in the following terms:

[quote="The Huffington Post":1i388vh1]You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
In the heat increasingly bitter Democratic presidential nomination battle, these disgraceful comments by Obama have been leaped on by Hillary Clinton as evidence of the "elitist", "demeaning" and "out of touch". The McCain camp's spokesman Steve Schmidt said of the comments: "It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," Schmidt said. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

This will obviously be a massivly embarrassing faux paus by Obama. He has revealed himself as not the candidate of change, but an old fashioned American liberal with a negetive view of the American people. With this in mind it is not surprising that Obama made these comments in San Francisco and not in the areas he spoke of. One could not imagine them going down so well there. He has form for tailoring his message and his tastes to suit the audience. The candidate who transcends race attends a church enthraled with Black separatism for twenty years. The candidate whose campaign claims he will rebuild America's industries with narrow-minded protectionism in public assures those same foreigners that they have nothing to fear from him on that score. And now this. Thankfully, he may have just commited political suicide, if not in the primaries, then in the November election.[/quote:1i388vh1]


I'm no fan of Obama but this old news folks. Happened a week ago. Most polls in the States, bar Pennsylvania, so Obama pretty much unchanged.

It seems like he might have just come out and said what the urban city-dwellers in the USA are thinking.

Is it not a possibility?

At first I was very critical of Obama and his campaign. It all seemed based upon the notion of "change" with little substance. Since then however my views have changed somewhat and I believe that there is now a substance about him which I failed to notice before. Having said that, I still feel that pound for pound his policies fall down when compared against both Clinton's and McCain's.

He talks the talk alright, but whether he can walk the walk is something I am yet to be convinced of.
 

Zyklon B

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john geraghty said:
I actually think that Obama is on the mark on this one. It's a very socialist take on why voters turn more to the right and to blame other sectors of society.
More rubbish from Obama. Here's an interesting article from realclearpolitics.com Obama's Great Mistake, The "San Francisco Democrat"

From the article:
"They don't vote on economic issues because they don't expect anybody's going to help them," Obama said, in an attempt to contextualize his remark. "So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns" or "gay marriage" or "take refuge in their faith."

To many liberals this all makes perfect sense. Indeed Obama's perspective is the prevailing viewpoint in Democratic circles. And this is what's the matter with a party that has accepted "What's the Matter with Kansas" as gospel.

No book has more influenced Democratic thought in recent years. The premise is that because Democrats stopped representing working and middle class voters' economic concerns, "dropping the class language that once distinguished them sharply from Republicans they have left themselves vulnerable to wedge issues."

Obama has merely reiterated the prevailing lesson Democrats have taken from Republicans victories in seven of the last ten presidential elections.

The crux of the argument is that American liberals should become more like European liberals in order to win back America. The book was a case for Democrats to get voters to think more in terms of money than culture. Frank argued Democrats should emulate the economic populism that failed to win any of William Jennings Bryan's three bids for the presidency.

But that's merely poor tactics. What is always so offensive to regular Americans is the presumption that if she is offered better tax policies she won't care any longer about abortion. And the viewpoint holds from one issue to the next: offer rural white men rhetoric that reminds them that they are working class and he'll accept that the Second Amendment only referred to militias.

Then there is the exhibited ignorance. Of course families who struggle financially care more about moral values, they are more likely to experience the breakdown of the family. In other words, cultural issues are not a substitute for economic concerns, as Obama argues, but inseparable from many concerned by their economic struggle.

All of this is exactly the sort of mistake Democrats have been making for decades. How many times can some leading liberals live up to the culturally elitist charge without considering that perhaps there is some electricity behind the charge?
More:
Many liberals get rural America so wrong because, as The Pew Research Center for People and the Press found, not only do "most Liberals live in a world apart from Disadvantaged Democrats and Conservative Democrats," but also rural voters.
 

Defeated Romanticist

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A_man_about_a_dog said:
I'm no fan of Obama but this old news folks. Happened a week ago. Most polls in the States, bar Pennsylvania, so Obama pretty much unchanged.
He said it on Friday.

Bom said:
It is obvious (to anyone who has been in small-town, mid-western America) that Obama shows great undertanding here of life in such places, the pressures that exist for the local populations, and the how these manifest themselves. Far from being elitist or 'removed' from their experience he is the only candidate who has shown this level of insight regarding what has happened, over time, to small-town America. That he has done so with such sympathy, honesty, and understanding is even more to his credit. From Illinois, Obama obviously understands the conditions that precipitated Farm Aid and all that has happened to these communities subsequently.

And, for those who are still confused, with just the slightest research you will find that Obama is not a socialist (nor is he a Muslim).
How can e understand somewhere he has only been to for short stops on the campaign trail. All the evidence suggests that the opposite is true, he doesn't comprehend that people might believe in religion for reasons he got involved in religion, ie to make himself black enough for his people in Chicago.
Blue tide said:
Everything he said there makes a lot of sense to me. Wait for the long lingering recession to kick in here and we'll see much anti-immigrant sentiment and a gravitation back to the Catholic church among the working class. I worked in a local chipper in Killareney during my first year of college and the hatred of immigrants was extremely evident among the drunken mob and the less educated, sober, middle aged people. I fear this will only get worse as low skill manufacturing and construction jobs are cut. Still though, only a politically naive fool would make such a comment at this stage of the democratic race.
If your attitude is, and I expect it is, typical of blueshirts, your party will be in opposition for sometime.
 

Thac0man

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Blue Tide said:
I worked in a local chipper in Killareney during my first year of college and the hatred of immigrants was extremely evident among the drunken mob and the less educated, sober, middle aged people.
Jesus, steady on. That 'drunken mod' and the middle aged more sober people were paying your collage fees mate, don't forget that so unless you opted for a private collage and paid your own fees, don't think you are above anyone else.
 

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