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Barroso was never right for the job :-|

Realism

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Lisbon 're-launch' is a worrying step backwards

Concerning the European Commission's 're-launch' today of the Lisbon
Strategy, Daniel Cohn-Bendit Co-President of the Greens/EFA Group and
Pierre Jonckheer Vice-President of the Greens/EFA Group issued the
following joint statement:

"Far from a re-launch, Commission President Barroso is today
presenting a step back into pre-Lisbon times. The Commission is
reverting to one-dimensional policies that have already proved unable
to solve the problems we face. We need an integrated strategy able to
achieve our economic, environmental, and social goals. The approach
put forward today is depressingly reminiscent of the Thatcher years."

"We share the goals of job creation, innovation and the modernisation
of the European economy. But the instruments proposed by the
Commission are simply not appropriate to achieve these goals. We need
a comprehensive macro-economic approach including demand-side policies
and labour-friendly tax systems. Instead we are offered a supply-side
solution that devolves responsibility to the Member States. The
Commission has reduced its role in steering Europe on the right path,
and now expects governments to meet their European responsibilities.
We believe that the Commission is failing to show much-needed
leadership in this regard.

"Instead of the one-dimensional 'partnership for growth and
employment' we need a European 'New Deal' � a contract for
sustainability, in which the real needs of the citizens and the
environment are balanced and compatible with the need to modernise our
economy. We must be clear; competitiveness, enterprise and growth are
a part � but not all � of the picture. A sustainable strategy will
enhance competitivity."

"One of the major ways to improve competitiveness is through
investment in people: in education, professional training, innovation,
research. Ecological innovation should also be part of a
forward-looking strategy for job creation. The Commission itself says
in a report that the eco-industry is growing by 5% a year,
outperforming the rest of the economy."

"A Litmus test for how the Commission intends to balance business and
health and ecological interests, will be the fate of the REACH
legislation on chemicals. Instead of a disaster, this is a challenge
and a chance for industry, and the savings in health costs for
European society far outweigh the costs."
 


rockofcashel

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Barroso was never right for the job

Your right....

But its just that Houllier had lost the plot. I mean yeah sure they won a few cups, but he left the team in a shambles. Just this Barroso fella hasnt done much better. I mean Everton's even ahead of ye now.
 

Libero

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I thought this thread would die a death, but it's still there...

I saw Barroso on CNBC the other day. Seemed very capable.

When challenged that he was giving the social agenda and the environment too low a priority as compared to the economy, he pointed to his three sons. If one of them is sick, he said, we need to prioritise his recovery. That may upset the other two but hopefully they will understand that this is what a good father has to do.

Besides, Europe cannot afford good sustainable social provision and environmental protection without a dynamic growing economy. The Lisbon Stategy is a plan to help bring this about by boosting productivity through supply side reforms, not slashing welfare programs.

Still, while Cohn-Bendit is wrong in his prescriptions for competitiveness, he does seem to be living in the real world a little more than Barroso.

The Commission President has limited powers to force through change on a macro level. He has to try and build up a head of steam and hope that persuasion can work on leaders of Member States. Already, the French are peeing on his parade (French politicians love a bit of unilateralism when it suits their corporate donors). The worst outcome will be for Barroso to fail and be followed by the spend, spend, and regulate approach of those like Cohn-Bendit. It just won't work and will deepen Europe's structural malaise.
 

Realism

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I thought this thread would die a death, but it's still there...

I saw Barroso on CNBC the other day. Seemed very capable.

When challenged that he was giving the social agenda and the environment too low a priority as compared to the economy, he pointed to his three sons. If one of them is sick, he said, we need to prioritise his recovery. That may upset the other two but hopefully they will understand that this is what a good father has to do.

Besides, Europe cannot afford good sustainable social provision and environmental protection without a dynamic growing economy. The Lisbon Stategy is a plan to help bring this about by boosting productivity through supply side reforms, not slashing welfare programs.

Still, while Cohn-Bendit is wrong in his prescriptions for competitiveness, he does seem to be living in the real world a little more than Barroso.

The Commission President has limited powers to force through change on a macro level. He has to try and build up a head of steam and hope that persuasion can work on leaders of Member States. Already, the French are peeing on his parade (French politicians love a bit of unilateralism when it suits their corporate donors). The worst outcome will be for Barroso to fail and be followed by the spend, spend, and regulate approach of those like Cohn-Bendit. It just won't work and will deepen Europe's structural malaise.
Spare us the Wall Street Journal crap. I read it all last week thank you very much. And I don't buy it. Trouncing on ecology and saying it's because the economic child is sick is a downright lie. Are you telling me that we cannot protect ecology and have a thriving economy?

[Edited on 6/2/2005 by Realism]
 

Libero

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Trouncing on ecology and saying it's because the economic child is sick is a downright lie.
How does the Lisbon Stategy trounce on ecology? I can see why socialists don't like it, but the Greens?

Are you telling me that we cannot protect ecology and have a thriving economy?
Not at all. We can protect ecology with or without a thriving economy but I expect it will be better funded and prioritised when Europe's economy gets going. The Lisbon Strategy is a coherent plan for doing acheiving that, even if it is very optimistic about Member States mucking in for the common good.
 

Realism

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[quote:j0bhduoh]Trouncing on ecology and saying it's because the economic child is sick is a downright lie.
How does the Lisbon Stategy trounce on ecology? I can see why socialists don't like it, but the Greens?[/quote:j0bhduoh]

Hello...hello......hello.................

Lisbon I liked, but that's dead in the water now that we have Barroso, or didn't you read or hear about his speech to the Parliament last week?

Are you telling me that we cannot protect ecology and have a thriving economy?
Not at all. We can protect ecology with or without a thriving economy but I expect it will be better funded and prioritised when Europe's economy gets going. The Lisbon Strategy is a coherent plan for doing acheiving that, even if it is very optimistic about Member States mucking in for the common good. [/quote]

i can't believe you said the above! We cannot protect ecology without a thriving economy. Tell me how! Maybe if you want to **** all the humans, but that's not my agenda. Again, Lisbon is dead thanks to Barroso.

[Edited on 8/2/2005 by Realism]
 

Realism

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[quote:vrg2z8ab][quote:vrg2z8ab]Trouncing on ecology and saying it's because the economic child is sick is a downright lie.
How does the Lisbon Stategy trounce on ecology? I can see why socialists don't like it, but the Greens?[/quote:vrg2z8ab]

Hello...hello......hello.................

Lisbon I liked, but that's dead in the water now that we have Barroso, or didn't you read or hear about his speech to the Parliament last week?

Are you telling me that we cannot protect ecology and have a thriving economy?
Not at all. We can protect ecology with or without a thriving economy but I expect it will be better funded and prioritised when Europe's economy gets going. The Lisbon Strategy is a coherent plan for doing acheiving that, even if it is very optimistic about Member States mucking in for the common good. [/quote:vrg2z8ab]

i can't believe you said the above! We cannot protect ecology without a thriving economy. Tell me how! Maybe if you want to **** all the humans, but that's not my agenda. Again, Lisbon is dead thanks to Barroso.

[Edited on 8/2/2005 by Realism] [/quote]

Well Libero?
 

watch-this-drive

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How can Barroso help the Lisbon agenda more?

France and Germany have the most to do and it is up to them alone to reform their labour laws...
I think Barroso is helping by not forcing them to keep strictly to the growth and stability pact
 

LooseCannon

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Messages
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The great hope of the EU is that it may construct an alternative economic model to the dominant US model.
e.g. focus on technological efficiency and resource use, if that is put in place then the EU will be well place to face the next energy crunch when there will be increasing competition for diminishing resources.

Barroso does not inspire confidence, he seems to adopting a strategy of seeking banana skins to stand on.

The asset test will be REACH, it is essentially a consumer protection tool which is facing a lot of opposition from industrial interests who prefer to churn out products without detailing the composition.

It can be boiled cown to choice of interests- Consumer or Corporate.
 

RebelJim

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Who cares about this guy. The Germans and the French will screw him anyway and keep doing what they want. There is no way in hell that Europe will ever compete effectively with the US unless it becomes more like Europe, which is unlikely. Try starting a business in Europe as opposed to the US. Try firing an incomeptent employee in Europe as opposed to the US. Try any risky economic activity, go broke and see how easy it is to start again.

The issue has to do with business culture and risk raking rather than some EU Commissioner or President. Europe has made its own disaster in overregulation. Barroso is unlikely to clear it up and his successor will be agreed upon to undo it at the behest of Germany and France.
 

watch-this-drive

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Quote
The great hope of the EU is that it may construct an alternative economic model to the dominant US model.

whose great hope is that? the EU social model is being deconstructed because of massive unemployment...
the hope now I think is reform so that the economy will grow and that its doesnt face a pension meltdown.

quote
It can be boiled cown to choice of interests- Consumer or Corporate.

or maybe a balance of both interests as both are vital?
 

Realism

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Realism said:
[quote:ewnn9efp][quote:ewnn9efp]Trouncing on ecology and saying it's because the economic child is sick is a downright lie.
How does the Lisbon Stategy trounce on ecology? I can see why socialists don't like it, but the Greens?
Hello...hello......hello.................

Lisbon I liked, but that's dead in the water now that we have Barroso, or didn't you read or hear about his speech to the Parliament last week?

Are you telling me that we cannot protect ecology and have a thriving economy?
Not at all. We can protect ecology with or without a thriving economy but I expect it will be better funded and prioritised when Europe's economy gets going. The Lisbon Strategy is a coherent plan for doing acheiving that, even if it is very optimistic about Member States mucking in for the common good. [/quote:ewnn9efp]

i can't believe you said the above! We cannot protect ecology without a thriving economy. Tell me how! Maybe if you want to f*** all the humans, but that's not my agenda. Again, Lisbon is dead thanks to Barroso.

[Edited on 8/2/2005 by Realism] [/quote:ewnn9efp]

Well Libero?[/quote]

Still no reply Libero. Learn to spell strategy by the way.
 

thegeneral

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Messages
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I have to say Realism that your attitude to other posters on this forum leaves a lot to be desired. Do you assume you can demand someone replly to every word you say? It is somewhat arrogant to believe your view matters more than others. This isn't the first time you've done it to other posters either. People will debate an issue if they feel it warrents debating. Cop yourself on :x
 

Libero

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Realism,

I didn't reply because the standard of your contributions was so low. Especially for a postgraduate economics student.

If you want I'll take you through line by line...

Hello...hello......hello.................
I'm not sure if this is an impression of an English policeman, Kurt Cobain, or some twat from Friends. Please tell us.

Lisbon I liked, but that's dead in the water now that we have Barroso, or didn't you read or hear about his speech to the Parliament last week?
Here we don't find out why Realism thinks Lisbon is dead in the water, just assertion followed by a snide question. And the answer is yes.

i can't believe you said the above! We cannot protect ecology without a thriving economy. Tell me how! Maybe if you want to f*** all the humans, but that's not my agenda. Again, Lisbon is dead thanks to Barroso.
No, I don't want to f*** all the humans and goody for you that it's not your agenda.
As for the ecology-economy thing, of course having a healthy economy helps. That's the point of my post and I even wrote: "I expect it will be better funded and prioritised when Europe's economy gets going". The corollary of this is that a stuttering economy means weaker environmental protection. Please read others' posts in future.[/i]
 

Realism

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That's nice thegeneral -but that's you not me

thegeneral said:
I have to say Realism that your attitude to other posters on this forum leaves a lot to be desired. Do you assume you can demand someone replly to every word you say? It is somewhat arrogant to believe your view matters more than others. This isn't the first time you've done it to other posters either. People will debate an issue if they feel it warrents debating. Cop yourself on :x
Don't attack me like that thegeneral. I was just asking for a response from libero. Libero has every right to reply or not to reply to anything I say. Get off the stress train man.
 

Conor

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Libero has every right to reply or not to reply to anything I say
I think TheGeneral's point was that you seemed to forget this.
 

Realism

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Libero, your hypocritical schism is not my cup of tea

Libero said:
Realism,

I didn't reply because the standard of your contributions was so low. Especially for a postgraduate economics student.
And now who's arrogant thegeneral??????????? FYI, I'm not a 'postgraduate economics student'. I may be a postgraduate but I am actually studying in the third year of an undergraduate degree. And I feel out of my depth thanks to not having had a go at intermediate economics. So much for your pretensions.

And your standard is higher? How arrogant. I don't agree. Again and again your contributions are contemptible in their lack of respect for users and thus you make stupid comments that try to upset them. And this develops to the point that you make comments that are alright in your mind but totally wrong by anyone's standards. And then to respond to such is below your standard. Give me a break.

If you want I'll take you through line by line...


Hello...hello......hello.................

I'm not sure if this is an impression of an English policeman, Kurt Cobain, or some twat from Friends. Please tell us.
Not an impression. Not an imitation. Just my stupid old self. Isn't that right Libero.

Lisbon I liked, but that's dead in the water now that we have Barroso, or didn't you read or hear about his speech to the Parliament last week?

Here we don't find out why Realism thinks Lisbon is dead in the water, just assertion followed by a snide question. And the answer is yes.
It's dead in the water because Barroso is in charge. As a libero-loving Commission president, he also thinks like libero. He will judge libero to be capable of appreciating the three children analogy so that he can proceed with caring totally for the economic one. And Libero doesn't have a problem with this! It was implied and also contained in a press release why Barroso has killed Lisbon as a balanced agenda. Don't try your arrogance here too. It's tiresome.

i can't believe you said the above! We cannot protect ecology without a thriving economy. Tell me how! Maybe if you want to f*** all the humans, but that's not my agenda. Again, Lisbon is dead thanks to Barroso.

No, I don't want to f*** all the humans and goody for you that it's not your agenda.
As for the ecology-economy thing, of course having a healthy economy helps. That's the point of my post and I even wrote: "I expect it will be better funded and prioritised when Europe's economy gets going". The corollary of this is that a stuttering economy means weaker environmental protection. Please read others' posts in future.
Very weak indeed. Does not address my question in the slightest. More arrogance as usual. It is quite clear that you relegate ecology to something on the side. You really don't give a damn about it. And yet you tried to pretend that you do.

Simply saying that ecology will be "better funded and prioritised" once the economy is back on track is hardly stating that ecology will be actually protected in any real sense. Funding and a slightly higher priority than it is now - that's a return to levels above the dip in ecological management in the intervening period - will do nothing to put ecology on a level footing with economy.

And it's clear that you know nothing about this and do not have as your aim marrying the two. For the only consistent idea for us to grasp is just that - protecting both at the same time. Ten years or twenty years down the line is essentially you giving two fingers to ecology. Be honest and say it Libero. Don't be a hypocrite. And you clearly don't think that protecting ecology is compatible with economic growth.

Because you are on the extreme end of the argument, saying that ecological protection is too costly right now or in the medium term, and that it matters less than economy. This is the same as the silly and dangerous argument of the extreme environmentalists who say that economy is damaging ecology and that economy doesn't matter which I reject wholeheartedly.

Be honest and admit that, and stop being arrogant to me and others by pretending otherwise and then bahaving in a negative fashion when someone will not accept your hypocritical schism inside your head.
 

thegeneral

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Conor said:
Libero has every right to reply or not to reply to anything I say
I think TheGeneral's point was that you seemed to forget this.
Conor puts that as well as I could. Just pointing out that you should brush up on your netiquette a bit more.
 


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