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BBC Debate: "Europe should shut the door on immigration".


SirTallaghtban

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Feb 20, 2013
Messages
1,348
Interesting debate on the influx of both legal and illegal immigrants from Asia and Africa into Europe.

[video=youtube;4rT3gMIiwvQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rT3gMIiwvQ[/video]

In collaboration with the BBC World News and the Onassis Cultural Centre, Intelligence Squared Greece is staging a singularly topical debate on Europe’s economy, politics and society.
Almost 10% of the inhabitants of the European Union do not live in the country in which they were born—a percentage that equates to over 37 million people [1].
Although Europe is now entering its eighth year of economic crisis, the waves of immigration from Asia and Africa continue unabated.

http://www.sgt.gr/en/programme/event/1044


Speaking for the motion:
• Douglas Murray, author, director of the Henry Jackson Society
• Makis Voridis, MP, former Minister for Infrastructure, Transportation and Networks

Speakers against the motion:
• Bernard Kouchner, former Foreign Minister of France, co-founder of Médecins Sans Frontières and Médecins du Monde
• Antigone Lyberaki, Professor of Economics at Panteion University, Board member of ActionAid Greece

Chair: Nik Gowing, journalist with BBC World News

The speakers in favor of immigration claim that Europe needs immigrants and that Europeans have a moral obligation to accept them, while the side against immigration claims that European and national identities are lost if we don't put a hold on immigration.

The debate is held in Greece, coincidentally the country where most immigrants enter Europe and where the extreme right is rapidly growing. Is it time to pull the drawbridge up?
 


Dame_Enda

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Dec 14, 2011
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52,222
I think tighter controls are a small price to pay to prevent the rise to power of Fascism/National Socialism in Europe. The economic crisis is also a wakeup call of the dangers that come from reducing nation states to the status of mere markets without cultural sensitivities.
 

Lando Calrissian

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Feb 22, 2013
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But how would the globalist , race to the bottom agenda be served by such archaic notions as national integrity?
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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Almost 10% of the inhabitants of the European Union do not live in the country in which they were born—a percentage that equates to over 37 million people
Ireland generated probably the largest peacetime migration over the last two centuries. You can't claim that the US, UK and Australia haven't benefited from that.
 

Kev408

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Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,123
I think tighter controls are a small price to pay to prevent the rise to power of Fascism/National Socialism in Europe. The economic crisis is also a wakeup call of the dangers that come from reducing nation states to the status of mere markets without cultural sensitivities.
And they get free prams too.
 

Kev408

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Messages
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You saying they don't?
Oh god no. Every single immigrant into Ireland gets free prams - even the single men. They're useful for going around to collect their 'countless other benefits'.
 

SirTallaghtban

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Feb 20, 2013
Messages
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And they get free prams too.
If an asylum seeker has young children but is still in the asylum process - who purchases essentials like buggies etc for her?

The state, thats who. Not that I really give a fiddlers - but its not a myth.

Anyway, this is off topic. EU member states welcomed in 3.1 million legal non EU immigrants in 2010. How many illegals, nobody knows. Is this sustainable considering the unemployment problem that many member states face?
 

SirTallaghtban

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Feb 20, 2013
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Sort of like how EU citizens are not really foreign in Ireland today.
Pretty much, yeah. Have you read the OP and watched the clip?

Well, its about non EU citizens migrating into EU member states and whether or not this should be allowed to continue. Not about Paddy moving to England. If you want to discuss the affect Irish migration into the UK had on the native workers, can I respectfully ask that you set up your own thread on the subject?
 

Crazy horse 6

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Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
13,515
Interesting debate on the influx of both legal and illegal immigrants from Asia and Africa into Europe.

[video=youtube;4rT3gMIiwvQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rT3gMIiwvQ[/video]

In collaboration with the BBC World News and the Onassis Cultural Centre, Intelligence Squared Greece is staging a singularly topical debate on Europe’s economy, politics and society.
Almost 10% of the inhabitants of the European Union do not live in the country in which they were born—a percentage that equates to over 37 million people [1].
Although Europe is now entering its eighth year of economic crisis, the waves of immigration from Asia and Africa continue unabated.

http://www.sgt.gr/en/programme/event/1044


Speaking for the motion:
• Douglas Murray, author, director of the Henry Jackson Society
• Makis Voridis, MP, former Minister for Infrastructure, Transportation and Networks

Speakers against the motion:
• Bernard Kouchner, former Foreign Minister of France, co-founder of Médecins Sans Frontières and Médecins du Monde
• Antigone Lyberaki, Professor of Economics at Panteion University, Board member of ActionAid Greece

Chair: Nik Gowing, journalist with BBC World News

The speakers in favor of immigration claim that Europe needs immigrants and that Europeans have a moral obligation to accept them, while the side against immigration claims that European and national identities are lost if we don't put a hold on immigration.

The debate is held in Greece, coincidentally the country where most immigrants enter Europe and where the extreme right is rapidly growing. Is it time to pull the drawbridge up?

Yes. In fact the time has long passed since we should have pulled the drawbridge up. Ireland has a huge amount of our own emigrating yet we continue to let people flood into the nation. I have no problem with people coming here looking for work when work is aplenty but all should be offered work permits that will not be renewed when unemployment raises above say 7%.

Take a walk around north inner city Dublin and tell me are not witnessing the failure of multiculturalism on a grand scale.
 

elliebee

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Oct 23, 2011
Messages
5,002
Ireland generated probably the largest peacetime migration over the last two centuries. You can't claim that the US, UK and Australia haven't benefited from that.
But you're actually missing the point. USA and Australia impose strict conditions for all immigrants. We don't.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,180
Interesting debate on the influx of both legal and illegal immigrants from Asia and Africa into Europe.

[video=youtube;4rT3gMIiwvQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rT3gMIiwvQ[/video]

In collaboration with the BBC World News and the Onassis Cultural Centre, Intelligence Squared Greece is staging a singularly topical debate on Europe’s economy, politics and society.
Almost 10% of the inhabitants of the European Union do not live in the country in which they were born—a percentage that equates to over 37 million people [1].
Although Europe is now entering its eighth year of economic crisis, the waves of immigration from Asia and Africa continue unabated.

http://www.sgt.gr/en/programme/event/1044


Speaking for the motion:
• Douglas Murray, author, director of the Henry Jackson Society
• Makis Voridis, MP, former Minister for Infrastructure, Transportation and Networks

Speakers against the motion:
• Bernard Kouchner, former Foreign Minister of France, co-founder of Médecins Sans Frontières and Médecins du Monde
• Antigone Lyberaki, Professor of Economics at Panteion University, Board member of ActionAid Greece

Chair: Nik Gowing, journalist with BBC World News

The speakers in favor of immigration claim that Europe needs immigrants and that Europeans have a moral obligation to accept them, while the side against immigration claims that European and national identities are lost if we don't put a hold on immigration.

The debate is held in Greece, coincidentally the country where most immigrants enter Europe and where the extreme right is rapidly growing. Is it time to pull the drawbridge up?
While we have tens of millions across the entire EU unemployed, we need to shut the doors to non-EU immigration.

The far right has been rising very fast and if it continues we could descend into a far right hell.

At present with so many unemployed in every European country, we need to stop immigration until we get rid of unemployment, otherwise we are asking for a nightmare.

Also there needs to be a period of consolidation regarding the immigrants we have in Europe as integration has ground to a halt.


PS: Thanks for posting that.

I am glad to see the debate on immigration beginning in a sensible matter, without the ranting of the extreme left and right.
 
Last edited:

Nemesiscorporation

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Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,180
I think tighter controls are a small price to pay to prevent the rise to power of Fascism/National Socialism in Europe. The economic crisis is also a wakeup call of the dangers that come from reducing nation states to the status of mere markets without cultural sensitivities.
You have left something out.

A curb on immigration while we have such high unemployment will not only help to prevent the rise of the far right, but also the far left.

Both communist regimes and fascist-nazi regimes have attacked minorites and used them as an excuse to impose a political dogma. Have you ever heard of mass immigration regarding a communist regime?

To preserve democray, we need to have a curb on immigration until unemployment drops to a low level and the minorities we have are integrated.
 

Racist

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Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
1,489
Sort of like how EU citizens are not really foreign in Ireland today.
No, its not the same type of relationship, Ireland was once ruled by Britain and part still is, so we have a different relationship.

People from outside the UK, Irish borders are looked upon as foreigners, regardless of EU membership.
 

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