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Being long term unemployed and getting out of it!


Cooperate for freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,701
For reasons of parental leave I find myself away from my paid employment for an extended number of weeks and am finding it quite an experiment. It is also enlightening and quite scary. Not for me as such as i have something to return to, but for the great many people who have no regular work and get up every morning and perhaps now afternoon with little sense of purpose.

It does not feel the same as being a student for example as I was young then and had no responsibilities. What truly concerns me is how adult men in particular and some women truly feel about their long term life at home on low income waiting for the means tested meagre pension.

Many of these people try to establish new roles as carers for example for children with very minor problems often exaggerated or find a meaningless course to fill time. Doomed to waiting on a potential accident insurance claim to give them a lift or calling out the SVP can't do much for self esteem.

The concern is here that everyday these people spend out of work leaves them more socially isolated with reduced self esteem and seriously deskilled particularly in the area of dealing with the public. This rules out their ability to get jobs in the retail sector or service industry generally leaving only warehouses etc or maybe delivery men roles.

I feel strongly that in the absence of large scale paid employment being available to a great many people the government should be offering useful advice to people about the importance of not seeing the social welfare as even a good short term option. It may be necessary but it should be strongly recommended that the recently unemployed don't get too fussy and do their best to take whatever jobs they are capable of doing as quickly as possible.

I am aware of a number of families where courses have been chosen over employment because this is the advice given. I am not sure why any employer would be keen to take on a 40 year old average arts graduate with a bundle of kids who is miserable about his social devaluation when the option of a hungry 23 year old is always going to be available in a very tight labour market.

Personally I find daily exercise important for getting me out and mixing and keeping some degree of sharpness but again I know a great many long term unemployed who have fallen into the well set trap of sitting in the house out of sight.

An expansion of the community employment scheme programme to offer roles running and teaching in local homework clubs would surely be useful to many children whilst offering a purpose to those destined to in reality a life on the dole wondering where it all went wrong or indeed slipping onto long term sick with depression.

What suggestions or advice do you have for those currently long term unemployed with children?
 


roc_

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
6,528
Think of a business idea, then try and make it happen. There are plenty of supports out there along the road. True, depending on temperament, it may be a long road. But you will find a great degree of purpose, and it is a million times better than the soul destroying Fas Training or unpaid Internship options out there.
 

emulator

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Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
10,260
I am not sure why any employer would be keen to take on a 40 year old average arts graduate with a bundle of kids who is miserable about his social devaluation when the option of a hungry 23 year old is always going to be available in a very tight labour market.
Having seen a lot of the 20something graduates these days, I would've said any employer with a bit of cop on would be happy to get the 40something graduate. They have the benefit of being in the workforce for years already and gained plenty of general life experience. The 20something has effectively just left education for the first time. Many don't know their proverbial from their elbow....
 

gatsbygirl20

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,773
For reasons of parental leave I find myself away from my paid employment for an extended number of weeks and am finding it quite an experiment. It is also enlightening and quite scary. Not for me as such as i have something to return to, but for the great many people who have no regular work and get up every morning and perhaps now afternoon with little sense of purpose.

It does not feel the same as being a student for example as I was young then and had no responsibilities. What truly concerns me is how adult men in particular and some women truly feel about their long term life at home on low income waiting for the means tested meagre pension.

Many of these people try to establish new roles as carers for example for children with very minor problems often exaggerated or find a meaningless course to fill time. Doomed to waiting on a potential accident insurance claim to give them a lift or calling out the SVP can't do much for self esteem.

The concern is here that everyday these people spend out of work leaves them more socially isolated with reduced self esteem and seriously deskilled particularly in the area of dealing with the public. This rules out their ability to get jobs in the retail sector or service industry generally leaving only warehouses etc or maybe delivery men roles.

I feel strongly that in the absence of large scale paid employment being available to a great many people the government should be offering useful advice to people about the importance of not seeing the social welfare as even a good short term option. It may be necessary but it should be strongly recommended that the recently unemployed don't get too fussy and do their best to take whatever jobs they are capable of doing as quickly as possible.

I am aware of a number of families where courses have been chosen over employment because this is the advice given. I am not sure why any employer would be keen to take on a 40 year old average arts graduate with a bundle of kids who is miserable about his social devaluation when the option of a hungry 23 year old is always going to be available in a very tight labour market.

Personally I find daily exercise important for getting me out and mixing and keeping some degree of sharpness but again I know a great many long term unemployed who have fallen into the well set trap of sitting in the house out of sight.

An expansion of the community employment scheme programme to offer roles running and teaching in local homework clubs would surely be useful to many children whilst offering a purpose to those destined to in reality a life on the dole wondering where it all went wrong or indeed slipping onto long term sick with depression.

What suggestions or advice do you have for those currently long term unemployed with children?

The main problem with being unemployed is having no money, or very little money.

The other things you mention which I have bolded--losing sharpness, sitting in the house, becoming isolated, problem filling time--depend on personality and circumstance

Paid work is not the be-all and end-all of life for many people, and if their financial circumstances allowed it they would stay at home.

They do not necessarily depend on their workplace for company, purpose, or self-esteem. Indeed the workplace may be the locus of bullying, negative self-image, unhappiness. They may feel that they are a wage slave as precious days pass, never to return

These people may have friends, family, hobbies, children. They might like to play a sport, exercise, cook, pursue a hobby, learn to play an instrument, talk to their neighbours, spend time with children or family, do further study, garden, write, make music. Work may render them too exhausted or too time-poor to do these things

"Sitting in the house" may suit some people. Not all jobs require you to "meet the public". A creative writer or a computer geek (whatever their job is called) might benefit from isolation and time to reflect or to think up new ideas

The point I am trying to make is that UNEMPLOYMENT IS BAD. Because without work one is POOR. But a sense of self-esteem or purpose in life can come from other things than paid employment

I also fear that this "you're better off doing something rather than sitting at home" might lead to the work-for-nothing conclusion..."you're better off working for nothing for me, than sitting at home"

The entire discourse around work/unemployment seems to presume that all work is fantastic and fulfilling, and that without it people are isolated, unhappy, unable to fill the time, lack purpose...

That may be true for some, but not all. It is the lack of money that is the problem when you are unemployed.....

Good and timely OP by the way...
 

seanmacc

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
1,022
I'd say get your self out there. Despite the national depression in the labour market there is loads of work out there despite what the media and a lot of people would have you believe. The thing is that there is a load of employers with vacancies but are not advertising just because of the fact they do not want to sift through the hundreds of applications they are going to get in the door. Keep banging the CV's out there to everyone even if there's no job advertised. If there is a job advertised don't be afraid to think outside the box like this individual: On the job hunt: Paddy Power « Rowan Gallagher

Good Luck
 

greengoose2

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
25,401
I'd say get your self out there. Despite the national depression in the labour market there is loads of work out there despite what the media and a lot of people would have you believe. The thing is that there is a load of employers with vacancies but are not advertising just because of the fact they do not want to sift through the hundreds of applications they are going to get in the door. Keep banging the CV's out there to everyone even if there's no job advertised. If there is a job advertised don't be afraid to think outside the box like this individual: On the job hunt: Paddy Power « Rowan Gallagher

Good Luck
This is Ireland not the mythical Utopia! However, here's an idea, based on your missive, that you could use. Set yourself up a website business matching up these couldn't be arsed employers to the poor souls who bang out CVs and you will outdo even the great Bill Gates!

If an employer has a vacancy it stands to reason he requires personnel to fill same. God help us for even reading your silly stuff!
 

Cooperate for freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,701
The main problem with being unemployed is having no money, or very little money.

The other things you mention which I have bolded--losing sharpness, sitting in the house, becoming isolated, problem filling time--depend on personality and circumstance

Paid work is not the be-all and end-all of life for many people, and if their financial circumstances allowed it they would stay at home.

They do not necessarily depend on their workplace for company, purpose, or self-esteem. Indeed the workplace may be the locus of bullying, negative self-image, unhappiness. They may feel that they are a wage slave as precious days pass, never to return

These people may have friends, family, hobbies, children. They might like to play a sport, exercise, cook, pursue a hobby, learn to play an instrument, talk to their neighbours, spend time with children or family, do further study, garden, write, make music. Work may render them too exhausted or too time-poor to do these things

"Sitting in the house" may suit some people. Not all jobs require you to "meet the public". A creative writer or a computer geek (whatever their job is called) might benefit from isolation and time to reflect or to think up new ideas

The point I am trying to make is that UNEMPLOYMENT IS BAD. Because without work one is POOR. But a sense of self-esteem or purpose in life can come from other things than paid employment

I also fear that this "you're better off doing something rather than sitting at home" might lead to the work-for-nothing conclusion..."you're better off working for nothing for me, than sitting at home"

The entire discourse around work/unemployment seems to presume that all work is fantastic and fulfilling, and that without it people are isolated, unhappy, unable to fill the time, lack purpose...

That may be true for some, but not all. It is the lack of money that is the problem when you are unemployed.....

Good and timely OP by the way...
But how do you solve the lack of money problem without getting a job? Waiting on claim, asking relatives, SVP etc will reduce self esteem surely thus making a job even more difficult to attain. The big hope is winning money and the reason why the lotto is a poor man's tax.
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,272
Twitter
I have a life.
Having seen a lot of the 20something graduates these days, I would've said any employer with a bit of cop on would be happy to get the 40something graduate. They have the benefit of being in the workforce for years already and gained plenty of general life experience. The 20something has effectively just left education for the first time. Many don't know their proverbial from their elbow....

....young graduate required with 30yrs experience scenario.
 

cathalbrugha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
9,215
I'd say get your self out there. Despite the national depression in the labour market there is loads of work out there despite what the media and a lot of people would have you believe. The thing is that there is a load of employers with vacancies but are not advertising just because of the fact they do not want to sift through the hundreds of applications they are going to get in the door. Keep banging the CV's out there to everyone even if there's no job advertised. If there is a job advertised don't be afraid to think outside the box like this individual: On the job hunt: Paddy Power « Rowan Gallagher

Good Luck
4000 people in Derry applied for 17 jobs recently

.. SBS Dateline | Rough Justice .. SBS Dateline

14 Aug 2012 – There are like 4,000 people

The majority of people in Northern Ireland want peace but in these areas of Derry I have found a growing sentiment that the Sinn Fein Peace Process is not delivering economic process nor the united Ireland that many Republicans seek.

TOM MCCOURT: As a Republican I want a 32 County Socialist Republic, am I going to get it through this Peace Process – I don’t think so. Instead you have an economic crisis. So, what better prospects? Friggin’ half the country’s unemployed. There are like 4,000 people…. I think over 4,000 people applied for 17 jobs last week in Derry. 17 friggin’ jobs with 4000 people applying for them. That’s the economic crisis we’re in. There’s a growth in anti-social behaviour. There is a growth in drug abuse. Young kids have lost hope.

Unemployment stands at 52% where I live in Dublin..
 

Cornerman

Active member
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
247
I lost my business 30 months ago, due the recession.

I haven't been able to find work in my region that suits my qualifications - despite being very well qualified. I notice quite a few employers looking for IT qualifications (I have an MSc and years of IT experience at a senior level) but they want qualifications 'less than 3 years old."

I am currently on a training course that is way below my educational level, but it is legally necessary for the type of work that is available locally. It is in the back of my mind that I might not be employed again. I am 49. I need to get a job as I have work I want to do on the house, and €188/wk is not enough to run a car and maintain a house, and feed yourself.

I have loads of hobbies, and I am very fit - especially since the business folded. While that was traumatic at the time it was the best thing to have happened to me in a long time. I am lucky that during the celtic tiger madness I cleared my private debts and so I have no mortgage or other debts to worry about. So I have no incentive to sell my house and move to a more job-rich area, I love it where I am.

Quite a few of the lads in the gym are unemployed and I think it would be money well spent for the state to subsidize gym membership as it keeps young lads off the streets, gives them a healthy focus, builds character and is very positive for mental and physical and social health.
 

greengoose2

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
25,401
4000 people in Derry applied for 17 jobs recently

.. SBS Dateline | Rough Justice .. SBS Dateline

14 Aug 2012 – There are like 4,000 people

The majority of people in Northern Ireland want peace but in these areas of Derry I have found a growing sentiment that the Sinn Fein Peace Process is not delivering economic process nor the united Ireland that many Republicans seek.

TOM MCCOURT: As a Republican I want a 32 County Socialist Republic, am I going to get it through this Peace Process – I don’t think so. Instead you have an economic crisis. So, what better prospects? Friggin’ half the country’s unemployed. There are like 4,000 people…. I think over 4,000 people applied for 17 jobs last week in Derry. 17 friggin’ jobs with 4000 people applying for them. That’s the economic crisis we’re in. There’s a growth in anti-social behaviour. There is a growth in drug abuse. Young kids have lost hope.

Unemployment stands at 52% where I live in Dublin..
According to some of the career guidance nutjobs here it would appear that 3,983 didn't "sell themselves" enough. When will all the smartarse commentators begin to understand that there are no jobs. They should go to hell with their nonsense and anecdotes. It only serves to further depress.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
This is Ireland not the mythical Utopia! However, here's an idea, based on your missive, that you could use. Set yourself up a website business matching up these couldn't be arsed employers to the poor souls who bang out CVs and you will outdo even the great Bill Gates!

If an employer has a vacancy it stands to reason he requires personnel to fill same. God help us for even reading your silly stuff!
Average CV gets read for 10 seconds before either being discarded or put on the look again pile.

There are jobs out there but its getting the employer to make the decision that he needs to employ you that takes the time. Employers put it off as long as possible before making the decision.

It has always been easier to get a job when in a job or doing activity rather than doing nothing.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
Quite a few of the lads in the gym are unemployed and I think it would be money well spent for the state to subsidize gym membership as it keeps young lads off the streets, gives them a healthy focus, builds character and is very positive for mental and physical and social health.

So aside from giving people €188 a week and other benefits you would like the state to subsidise Gym memberships which ultimately will be paid for by people working.
 

greengoose2

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
25,401
Average CV gets read for 10 seconds before either being discarded or put on the look again pile.

There are jobs out there but its getting the employer to make the decision that he needs to employ you that takes the time. Employers put it off as long as possible before making the decision.

It has always been easier to get a job when in a job or doing activity rather than doing nothing.
Where are the jobs? There are more unemployed than there are jobs. Even the most astute self sellers will have difficulty if they find themselves out of a job. Vicious circle I'm afraid. Talking up the situation is soul destroying.
 

Cooperate for freedom

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Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,701
So aside from giving people €188 a week and other benefits you would like the state to subsidise Gym memberships which ultimately will be paid for by people working.
It would certainly be preferable to paying for the high cholesterol tablets for overweight people etc.
 

Cooperate for freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,701
But you end up making it more and more unlikely for someone unemployed to go after a job as subsidised Gym etc etc gets cut.
I would much prefer to have the unemployed fully fit and healthy than slouching and sick. Healthy fit unemployed people motivated enough to go to the gym would in all likelihood be motivated to seek employment and will present well at an interview.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,439
So aside from giving people €188 a week and other benefits you would like the state to subsidise Gym memberships which ultimately will be paid for by people working.
It would seem you know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,439
I lost my business 30 months ago, due the recession.

I haven't been able to find work in my region that suits my qualifications - despite being very well qualified. I notice quite a few employers looking for IT qualifications (I have an MSc and years of IT experience at a senior level) but they want qualifications 'less than 3 years old."

I am currently on a training course that is way below my educational level, but it is legally necessary for the type of work that is available locally. It is in the back of my mind that I might not be employed again. I am 49. I need to get a job as I have work I want to do on the house, and €188/wk is not enough to run a car and maintain a house, and feed yourself.

I have loads of hobbies, and I am very fit - especially since the business folded. While that was traumatic at the time it was the best thing to have happened to me in a long time. I am lucky that during the celtic tiger madness I cleared my private debts and so I have no mortgage or other debts to worry about. So I have no incentive to sell my house and move to a more job-rich area, I love it where I am.

Quite a few of the lads in the gym are unemployed and I think it would be money well spent for the state to subsidize gym membership as it keeps young lads off the streets, gives them a healthy focus, builds character and is very positive for mental and physical and social health.
Best of good fortune to you; I think you will gain employment again.

Your idea about the gym is a good one, in my opinion.
 

Cornerman

Active member
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
247
So aside from giving people €188 a week and other benefits you would like the state to subsidise Gym memberships which ultimately will be paid for by people working.
I think the benefits system as a whole is very bizarre. At the moment I see with my own eyes unemployed men hanging around the bookies at 10 in the morning, smoking roll-ups, in the pub in the afternoon, and living on a diet of chips (from the Chinese 'cos they're cheapest.) All paid for by the people that are working. That's what they spend their dole on.

I lived in Belfast during the 80s when the troubles and unemployment were at their height. In every district there were quality sports centres provided and subsidized by the local authority - British tax payers' money. It was explained to me that keeping unemployed people active and physically/mentally healthy is a lot cheaper than having them unemployed depressed, obese and de-motivated.
 

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