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Belfast's blueprint for Irish language revival


LiamORaiste

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I've just returned from ashore visit to Belfast where I heard Irish being spoken freely in many different locations: by the manager of the Falls Road Sainsburys, by an attendant at the Ulster Museum, which seems to have an attitude refurbishment, by a tour guide on an opentop tour of Belfast and by the many and varied visitors to Culturlann McAdam O Fiaich. There's no grants for speaking Irish in the North as there is in the Gaeltachtai of the South.
Contrast that attitude of 'let's get it done" with the depressing dependency evident ina letter in today's Irish Times regarding the impact of possible cuts on the speaking of Irish in the Gaeltachtai. I'm not for cuts generally but I would be in favour of money paid for Gaeltacht grants being more widely available and being focused on community benefit rather than on individual speakers.
 

Estragon

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Trolls arriving in three, two, one....
 

picador

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I've just returned from ashore visit to Belfast where I heard Irish being spoken freely in many different locations: by the manager of the Falls Road Sainsburys, by an attendant at the Ulster Museum, which seems to have an attitude refurbishment, by a tour guide on an opentop tour of Belfast and by the many and varied visitors to Culturlann McAdam O Fiaich. There's no grants for speaking Irish in the North as there is in the Gaeltachtai of the South.
Contrast that attitude of 'let's get it done" with the depressing dependency evident ina letter in today's Irish Times regarding the impact of possible cuts on the speaking of Irish in the Gaeltachtai. I'm not for cuts generally but I would be in favour of money paid for Gaeltacht grants being more widely available and being focused on community benefit rather than on individual speakers.
Glad you enjoyed your time here. Were you on an organised tour on the bus, in the museum etc? Or did you just happen to bump into Irish speakers?
 
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I think the difference (and maith sibh to those in Belfast) is that people in the North have to choose Gaeilge, it means something to them, the have an affinity with it and are proud to use the language they have chosen.

In the Republic everyone is force fed the language and generally resist it, being ashamed to be heard using it in public. It's sad.

Maybe if we made it optional at 2nd level we'd get a smaller number of learners but a greater number of speakers?
 

Estragon

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In the Republic everyone is force fed the language and generally resist it, being ashamed to be heard using it in public. It's sad.

Maybe if we made it optional at 2nd level we'd get a smaller number of learners but a greater number of speakers?
Everyone is force fed English and Maths too.
 

DJP

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Contrast that attitude of 'let's get it done" with the depressing dependency evident ina letter in today's Irish Times regarding the impact of possible cuts on the speaking of Irish in the Gaeltachtai. I'm not for cuts generally but I would be in favour of money paid for Gaeltacht grants being more widely available and being focused on community benefit rather than on individual speakers.
They didn't mention anything about grants to individual speakers though in the letter did they???



In the Republic everyone is force fed the language and generally resist it, being ashamed to be heard using it in public. It's sad.
This is going to change big time. From next month on 40% of of the Irish Leaving Cert exam will be going on speaking the language.

People are not ashamed to speak it. Some people would now and then be embarrassed given how many people actually speak it.

We also need more second level gaelscoileanna or gaelcholáistí. There are campaigns for two more in Dublin at the moment and I know for one in Mullingar.

40% going on speaking the language for the Leaving Cert is covering only one albeit large aspect of what is needed. We can't forsake the others aspects or the future of the language and Irish speakers will suffer and increasingly so.
 

picador

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40% going on speaking the language for the Leaving Cert is covering only one albeit large aspect of what is needed. We can't forsake the others aspects or the future of the language and Irish speakers will suffer and increasingly so.
How much was it before?
 

Mushroom

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Trolls arriving in three, two, one....

Sorry I'm late - was delayed elsewhere.

Nothing much to say really - so some dude is happy because he overheard some saddoes ag caint as gaeilge. Big deal yee-haw! Pass the sparkling vino.

I heard a guy singing "Nessun Dorma" on the DART home last night, but I didn't consider it worthy of opening a thread in the "Current Affairs" forum to discuss the growing number of Italian opera singers living in Portmarnock.
 
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TODevastated

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I've just returned from ashore visit to Belfast where I heard Irish being spoken freely in many different locations: by the manager of the Falls Road Sainsburys, by an attendant at the Ulster Museum, which seems to have an attitude refurbishment, by a tour guide on an opentop tour of Belfast and by the many and varied visitors to Culturlann McAdam O Fiaich. There's no grants for speaking Irish in the North as there is in the Gaeltachtai of the South.
Contrast that attitude of 'let's get it done" with the depressing dependency evident ina letter in today's Irish Times regarding the impact of possible cuts on the speaking of Irish in the Gaeltachtai. I'm not for cuts generally but I would be in favour of money paid for Gaeltacht grants being more widely available and being focused on community benefit rather than on individual speakers.
where is the blueprint there??
 

LiamORaiste

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The blueprint appears obvious to me; create an atmosphere in which Irish is useful to live your life - a cultural centre, schools, a radio station and other amenities and people will avail of them and of the opportunity they present. That's what happened in Belfast and it's only in latter years that the state in the form of Foras na Gaeilge has intervened. That intervention, due to hamfistedness, rigid civil service attitudes and petty politics, is the greatest threat to the continued and increasing success of Belfast's living Gaeltacht.
 

DJP

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How much was it before?
20% or 25%.


The blueprint appears obvious to me; create an atmosphere in which Irish is useful to live your life - a cultural centre, schools, a radio station and other amenities and people will avail of them and of the opportunity they present. That's what happened in Belfast and it's only in latter years that the state in the form of Foras na Gaeilge has intervened. That intervention, due to hamfistedness, rigid civil service attitudes and petty politics, is the greatest threat to the continued and increasing success of Belfast's living Gaeltacht.
Speaking of radio stations, Dublin has Raidió na Life and Nearfm. The latter's Irish language programme "Ar Muin na Muice" is broadcast five days a week. Both stations are great assets and resources for Irish speakers and the Irish language. I am back presenting again with Nearfm.
 

LiamORaiste

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Definitely Raidio na Life and Near FM are contributing to the life of the Dublin Irish speaker but why isn't there a cEntre comparable to Belfast's Culturlann in Ireland's capital?
 

DJP

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Definitely Raidio na Life and Near FM are contributing to the life of the Dublin Irish speaker but why isn't there a cEntre comparable to Belfast's Culturlann in Ireland's capital?
There will be. Pat Carey was asked here at a Fianna Fáil party discussion about the new centres. He envisages using existing centres like Ceoltas Ceoltóirí Éireann centres so we should have one in Dublin in the next few years.
 

LiamORaiste

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Why wait until a minister delivers(or not)? If you want it, set it up yourselves! Waiting for a minister is as worthwhile as waiting for Godot. With all due respects, Minister Carey's words are just words. Dublin's Irish speakers need to follow the example of Belfast's Irish speakers - and they didn't wait for a Minister! This southern attitude of waiting until it's delivered with a bow is infuriating.
 

deirdrem

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Why wait until a minister delivers(or not)? If you want it, set it up yourselves! Waiting for a minister is as worthwhile as waiting for Godot. With all due respects, Minister Carey's words are just words. Dublin's Irish speakers need to follow the example of Belfast's Irish speakers - and they didn't wait for a Minister! This southern attitude of waiting until it's delivered with a bow is infuriating.
Not very likely to happen any time soon.

In the 26 counties, Irish speakers, like Irish people generally, seem to think that putting their hands into their pockets to fund something they want done/believe in is not the right way to go.
They generally think that the state should pay for whatever it is they want to do.

This would be all fine and grand except that Irish people also have a difficulty when it comes to paying taxes, and the more they make the less they like paying their fair share.

I think that within the EU the Ireland is state with the smallest proportion of tax to GDP, and so there is a huge demand on the state's resources.

If things are being done in Belfast and the north in general, it is because the nationalist population became accustomed to being ignored by the state, and had to set up alternatives for funding their projects. As a result, they get things done with voluntary work, small budgets and so on. Long may it last - but I don't expect this to percolate south of the border to any great extent.
 

DJP

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Why wait until a minister delivers(or not)? If you want it, set it up yourselves! Waiting for a minister is as worthwhile as waiting for Godot. With all due respects, Minister Carey's words are just words. Dublin's Irish speakers need to follow the example of Belfast's Irish speakers - and they didn't wait for a Minister! This southern attitude of waiting until it's delivered with a bow is infuriating.
It would cost hundreds of thousands to buy or start a cultural centre. And then staff's wages would have to be paid for. A man has just given Conradh na Gaeilge his house somewhere in Northern Ireland to be used as a cultural centre. If Irish was stronger and the movement was better, as good as it is in the Nationalist North, then these kinds of things would happen down here. My biggest short-term aim for Irish is to see recognition given to more second-level gaelscoileanna in the South in particular to the two campaigns in Dublin and then in Mullingar.
 

Clanrickard

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Sorry I'm late - was delayed elsewhere.

Nothing much to say really - so some dude is happy because he overheard some saddoes ag caint as gaeilge. Big deal yee-haw! Pass the sparkling vino.

I heard a guy singing "Nessun Dorma" on the DART home last night, but I didn't consider it worthy of opening a thread in the "Current Affairs" forum to discuss the growing number of Italian opera singers living in Portmarnock.
The only saddo here is you.
 

deise go deo

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Not very likely to happen any time soon.

In the 26 counties, Irish speakers, like Irish people generally, seem to think that putting their hands into their pockets to fund something they want done/believe in is not the right way to go.
They generally think that the state should pay for whatever it is they want to do.

This would be all fine and grand except that Irish people also have a difficulty when it comes to paying taxes, and the more they make the less they like paying their fair share.

I think that within the EU the Ireland is state with the smallest proportion of tax to GDP, and so there is a huge demand on the state's resources.

If things are being done in Belfast and the north in general, it is because the nationalist population became accustomed to being ignored by the state, and had to set up alternatives for funding their projects. As a result, they get things done with voluntary work, small budgets and so on. Long may it last - but I don't expect this to percolate south of the border to any great extent.
I know I am dragging up an old thread but this ^ just annoyed me.

Here
 
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