Beneficiaries of the Recession and the untouchables

west'sawake

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Has it escaped the attention of the Govt that some groups have actually increased their disposable income during this recession. Can they be targetted this time to carry some of the burden?

Workers and management with relatively secure jobs in the Commercial State sector. Most got pay increases, most escaped the pension levy, and because of deflation they saw quite substantial increases in disposable income. This would be known as the sheltered trading sector of the economy. A nurse and Garda see their Net income fall by over 12% while workers in ESB, Bord Gais, Bord Bia, etc, have had income increases.

People who have relatively secure jobs in the private sector, (insurance, Pensions industry) and hold tracker mortgages. Their mortgage repayments have fallen substantially and they have escaped pension levy hikes and pay cuts. They are better off.

The Pensions industry whose portfolio managers still rake in bonuses and investment fees even when their clients funds drop. Their income has not fallen.

The political class and its patronage supplicants, quangoes, those who wield the axe in the public sector and always protect their own jobs.

The CEOs and upper management of the HSE, other PS departments, and possibly even some charities who receive state stipends, who cut the wages of their workforce and lay off front line staff, but never lay off managment or cut managements/CEO salaries. E.G. Is it true that the CEO of the Human Rights Commission earns 250,000? (Ireland is not a tin pot dictatorship with widespread human rights abuses, this is madness).

Those who are now retired, enjoying defined benefit pensions, have their mortgages cleared, while their younger colleagues suffer huge drops in take home pay, have kids to rear and mortgages to repay. Who has the courage to take on that kind of grey vote, many of whom spend a lot of their time and money in their Spanish Holiday home?
 
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Cato

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Not a bad post. Just two quibbles.

Retail a protected sector? Are you serious? There has been carnage in that sector. I've worked in retail (supermarkets and connivence stores) since 2002 and plenty of my former colleagues have lost their jobs and taken big pay-cuts. Other retail sectors have also taken a hammering. Check out the Retail Sales Index on the CSO site.

I work for a charity that receives about two-thirds of its funding from the state. Everyone in that charity has taken a pay-cut, including the CEO and all the management. While that may not be representative of all charities, I have contacts in other charities who confirm the same.
 

west'sawake

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Not a bad post. Just two quibbles.

Retail a protected sector? Are you serious? There has been carnage in that sector. I've worked in retail (supermarkets and connivence stores) since 2002 and plenty of my former colleagues have lost their jobs and taken big pay-cuts. Other retail sectors have also taken a hammering. Check out the Retail Sales Index on the CSO site.

I work for a charity that receives about two-thirds of its funding from the state. Everyone in that charity has taken a pay-cut, including the CEO and all the management. While that may not be representative of all charities, I have contacts in other charities who confirm the same.
Fair enough Cato, I should clarify that workers in the larger multiples, Tesco, Dunnes, Supervalu including relatively new ones like Lidl and Aldi, have escaped wage cuts and the worst of the tax hikes, however the retail sector linked to the house building boom, furniture, interiors, etc, obviously has suffered greatly. Profit margins also in the sheltered trading sector are not suffering, due to their costs having fallen, thanks in part to the stronger Euro and greater competition in the Utility sector (Electricity costs have fallen)
 

Cato

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Fair enough Cato, I should clarify that workers in the larger multiples, Tesco, Dunnes, Supervalu including relatively new ones like Lidl and Aldi, have escaped wage cuts and the worst of the tax hikes, however the retail sector linked to the house building boom, furniture, interiors, etc, obviously has suffered greatly. Profit margins also in the sheltered trading sector are not suffering, due to their costs having fallen, thanks in part to the stronger Euro and greater competition in the Utility sector (Electricity costs have fallen)
I used to work running SuperValus and Centras and they have taken a hammering. Many have lost their jobs. All the stores I used to run have had to downsize and cut pay rates to those not protected by JLCs. Talking to the Regional Manager for Musgraves (who own the SuperValu and Centra brands) he tells me that the experience of the group I used to work for is common to other SVs and Centras.
 

west'sawake

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I used to work running SuperValus and Centras and they have taken a hammering. Many have lost their jobs. All the stores I used to run have had to downsize and cut pay rates to those not protected by JLCs. Talking to the Regional Manager for Musgraves (who own the SuperValu and Centra brands) he tells me that the experience of the group I used to work for is common to other SVs and Centras.
Thanks for that dose of anecdotal reality, I'll amend O.P accordingly.
 

MadAsHell

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Thanks for that dose of anecdotal reality, I'll amend O.P accordingly.
very good sequence of information, replies, amends and sense.

WELL DONE. just when i was giving up on P.ie having some sane folk;)
 

hugh o'neill

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Just wondering why does our most senior judge - CJ John Murray - gets paid 310,000.00 euros plus expenses, substantial pension entitlements and a pension of over 70,000.00 for his time as attorney general. This man is paid more than the most senior judge of the Us supreme court. There are over 300,000,000 people in the US conpared to 4,500,000. So for every euro the US citizen pays towards their senior judge we pay around 80 euros.

also why do we need a fire officer, registrar, manager for every county?? Why have we so many planning authorities in ireland?.....When's the last time noel dempsey made any substanial contribution to any debate this year? he seems to be opening roads bridges and chip shops?/ What a waster?????????????????
 

eoghanacht

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The 8th of December will be an interesting day.

Good OP btw but you've neglected to mention the wealthy, the ones you were cute enough just to dabble in property. Who's fortune's may have taken slight hit but if taken into account of say their net worth ten years ago they are up.

Bigger shoulders should bear a bigger burden, they'll hardly become destitute c'mon if their input keeps more Gadraí on the street and more hospital wings open isn't it time they 'donned the green jersey'?
 

Inda Kenny

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Have to agree about the grey brigade if you cut social welfare you need to cut the pension.
 

DCon

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Just wondering why does our most senior judge - CJ John Murray - gets paid 310,000.00 euros plus expenses, substantial pension entitlements and a pension of over 70,000.00 for his time as attorney general. This man is paid more than the most senior judge of the Us supreme court. There are over 300,000,000 people in the US conpared to 4,500,000. So for every euro the US citizen pays towards their senior judge we pay around 80 euros.

also why do we need a fire officer, registrar, manager for every county?? Why have we so many planning authorities in ireland?.....When's the last time noel dempsey made any substanial contribution to any debate this year? he seems to be opening roads bridges and chip shops?/ What a waster?????????????????
Why do we need so many TD's?

The representation per population was designed at a time before mobile phones, blackberries, email etc etc. Before these technological advances, having locally accessible representatives made sense. Now, there is no need.

No need at all.
 

Oldira1

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Has it escaped the attention of the Govt that some groups have actually increased their disposable income during this recession. Can they be targetted this time to carry some of the burden?

Workers and management with relatively secure jobs in the Commercial State sector. Most got pay increases, most escaped the pension levy, and because of deflation they saw quite substantial increases in disposable income. This would be known as the sheltered trading sector of the economy. A nurse and Garda see their Net income fall by over 12% while workers in ESB, Bord Gais, Bord Bia, etc, have had income increases.

People who have relatively secure jobs in the private sector, (insurance, Pensions industry) and hold tracker mortgages. Their mortgage repayments have fallen substantially and they have escaped pension levy hikes and pay cuts. They are better off.

So what about the PWCs and Arthur Cocks of this world? cleaned up during the boom and now x
Cleaning up shin with government contracts even though their incompetence has cost the state billions

The Pensions industry whose portfolio managers still rake in bonuses and investment fees even when their clients funds drop. Their income has not fallen.

The political class and its patronage supplicants, quangoes, those who wield the axe in the public sector and always protect their own jobs.

The CEOs and upper management of the HSE, other PS departments, and charities who receive state stipends, who cut the wages of their workforce and lay off front line staff, but never lay off managment or cut managements wages. Is it true that the CEO of the Human Rights Commission earns 250,000? (Ireland is not a tin pot dictatorship with widespread human rights abuses, this is madness).

Those who are now retired, enjoying defined benefit pensions, have their mortgages cleared, while their younger colleagues suffer huge drops in take home pay, have kids to rear and mortgages to repay. Who has the courage to take on that kind of grey vote, many of whom spend a lot of their time and money in their Spanish Holiday home?
 

MadAsHell

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The 8th of December will be an interesting day.

Good OP btw but you've neglected to mention the wealthy, the ones you were cute enough just to dabble in property. Who's fortune's may have taken slight hit but if taken into account of say their net worth ten years ago they are up.

Bigger shoulders should bear a bigger burden, they'll hardly become destitute c'mon if their input keeps more Gadraí on the street and more hospital wings open isn't it time they 'donned the green jersey'?
Last one to don the jersey was Denis Casey in Irish Life and look where that got him. But we'll of course find that the bigger shoulders also have bigger tax advisors.
It's probably going to be across the board, but I don't think we'll see much equality and sharing the load.
 

Radix

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Has it escaped the attention of the Govt that some groups have actually increased their disposable income during this recession. Can they be targetted this time to carry some of the burden?

Workers and management with relatively secure jobs in the Commercial State sector. Most got pay increases, most escaped the pension levy, and because of deflation they saw quite substantial increases in disposable income. This would be known as the sheltered trading sector of the economy. A nurse and Garda see their Net income fall by over 12% while workers in ESB, Bord Gais, Bord Bia, etc, have had income increases.

People who have relatively secure jobs in the private sector, (insurance, Pensions industry) and hold tracker mortgages. Their mortgage repayments have fallen substantially and they have escaped pension levy hikes and pay cuts. They are better off.

The Pensions industry whose portfolio managers still rake in bonuses and investment fees even when their clients funds drop. Their income has not fallen.

The political class and its patronage supplicants, quangoes, those who wield the axe in the public sector and always protect their own jobs.

The CEOs and upper management of the HSE, other PS departments, and charities who receive state stipends, who cut the wages of their workforce and lay off front line staff, but never lay off managment or cut managements wages. Is it true that the CEO of the Human Rights Commission earns 250,000? (Ireland is not a tin pot dictatorship with widespread human rights abuses, this is madness).

Those who are now retired, enjoying defined benefit pensions, have their mortgages cleared, while their younger colleagues suffer huge drops in take home pay, have kids to rear and mortgages to repay. Who has the courage to take on that kind of grey vote, many of whom spend a lot of their time and money in their Spanish Holiday home?
Take it, you don't have a tracker mortgage so?
 

olamp

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Have to agree about the grey brigade if you cut social welfare you need to cut the pension.
The "grey brigade" as you call them have worked hard all of their lives ,have lived through at least two recessions paying taxes of 65% +and interest rates of 18%.It was impossible to get a loan unless you had money in the first place so they lived modestly within their means -they had more sense than to buy into the whole celtic tiger extravaganza and they now deserve to live out their remaining years in relative comfort.For God`s sake get off their backs and grow up!
 

west'sawake

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The "grey brigade" as you call them have worked hard all of their lives ,have lived through at least two recessions paying taxes of 65% +and interest rates of 18%.It was impossible to get a loan unless you had money in the first place so they lived modestly within their means -they had more sense than to buy into the whole celtic tiger extravaganza and they now deserve to live out their remaining years in relative comfort.For God`s sake get off their backs and grow up!
I'm in my mid to late forties and I've been through two recessions, I have a mortgage, three young kids, a car to run, etc, and I've taken a 14% hit, I'll be damned if I'm going to continue to subsidise those on defined benefit gold plated pensions, who for certain did not put as much into those pensions as they are now getting out of them, sincew they are State subsidised, who have taken no hit, are better off, and have not half as many financial commitments.

No wonder so many have already taken early retirement. Do you realise that a young nurse, garda or teacher are now worse off than those who have retired in net pay terms? These same workers in their 20s, 30s and 40s, who have way more financial commitments are still rearing their kids, paying their mortgages, and you think that's equitable, that's fair?

The present generation of 65's or older didn't exactly have to storm the beaches at Normandy, they're the baby boomers who have had it pretty good. They're not those who grew up in the grim 30s, 40s and 50s. They had the boom years of the 60s and 70s, one bad decade in the 80s, and then more boom times in the 90s and most of the 00's. Also you can be sure despite the property down turn since they bought their homes long before the boom, that they also have healthy positive equity. So no debt, high equity, generous pensions, very low taxation, also benefitting from deflation and of course, free travel, no TV licence, free medical card, fuel allowance, most of which are not means tested. I'd call it one generation robbing another and I make no apologies for stating they should carry some of the burden too.
 

west'sawake

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The 8th of December will be an interesting day.

Good OP btw but you've neglected to mention the wealthy, the ones you were cute enough just to dabble in property. Who's fortune's may have taken slight hit but if taken into account of say their net worth ten years ago they are up.

Bigger shoulders should bear a bigger burden, they'll hardly become destitute c'mon if their input keeps more Gadraí on the street and more hospital wings open isn't it time they 'donned the green jersey'?
Absolutely agree with you re the bigger shoulders, question is can they be identified?
 


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