Better for society; a "supportive" or "competitive" work environment?

GDPR

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When push comes to shove advances for society in all fields, health, education, technology, science etc. best come, in my opinion, from a competitive work environment. It can be tougher on the individual, but a lot of individuals thrive on that sort of environment and will almost always produce the best results for business, the individuals concerned and for society in general.

The "supportive" environment CAN be a hiding place for the lazy and/or lets say the less than driven individual, but can also be a necessary place for those just not capable of producing anything more than, at best, average quality work and there is a place for that too.


There will be individual winners and losers, as they almost always are, but purely from society's point of view, I think there is really no question but that a competitive work place will produce the best results.

Are we in danger of becoming too soft on ourselves or has it already gone past that point where most people expect to be wrapped in cotton wool in their workplace?

Any thoughts?
 


PeaceGoalie

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When push comes to shove advances for society in all fields, health, education, technology, science etc. best come, in my opinion, from a competitive work environment. It can be tougher on the individual, but a lot of individuals thrive on that sort of environment and will almost always produce the best results for business, the individuals concerned and for society in general.

The "supportive" environment CAN be a hiding place for the lazy and/or lets say the less than driven individual, but can also be a necessary place for those just not capable of producing anything more than, at best, average quality work and there is a place for that too.


There will be individual winners and losers, as they almost always are, but purely from society's point of view, I think there is really no question but that a competitive work place will produce the best results.

Are we in danger of becoming too soft on ourselves or has it already gone past that point where most people expect to be wrapped in cotton wool in their workplace?Any thoughts?
Spare the rod and spoil the child. It is amazing how tinsel thin capitalist theories warp the mind. See above for an example.
 

GDPR

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Spare the rod and spoil the child. It is amazing how tinsel thin capitalist theories warp the mind. See above for an example.
Is that a "no" on the thoughts question or do you actually have a counter argument, but just want to keep it to yourself?
 
D

Deleted member 48908

Completely depends on the field, tonic. Then, there's the location of said field...and the opportunities for both advancement and reward in that field.

Driven individuals will always shine, but without the drones performing the mundane tasks, there's no substance - and therefore no end result.
 

GDPR

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Completely depends on the field, tonic. Then, there's the location of said field...and the opportunities for both advancement and reward in that field.

Driven individuals will always shine, but without the drones performing the mundane tasks, there's no substance - and therefore no end result.
All true, but in either environment one group will thrive & grow while the other will find its natural level.
My question is in general for the good of society which type of work environment works out to produce the best end result.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

All true, but in either environment one group will thrive & grow while the other will find its natural level.
My question is in general for the good of society which type of work environment works out to produce the best end result.
Again, this will depend on the type of society, and what you consider "good" for it.

Personally, I have always found that balance is where it's at. Support those who need it. Challenge the competitive. One can do both.
 

GDPR

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Again, this will depend on the type of society, and what you consider "good" for it.

Personally, I have always found that balance is where it's at. Support those who need it. Challenge the competitive. One can do both.
As a general environment I don't think you can without promoting one over the other.

I think you only get the best standards when you demand them and of everyone.
 
Last edited:

gatsbygirl20

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When push comes to shove advances for society in all fields, health, education, technology, science etc. best come, in my opinion, from a competitive work environment. It can be tougher on the individual, but a lot of individuals thrive on that sort of environment and will almost always produce the best results for business, the individuals concerned and for society in general.

The "supportive" environment CAN be a hiding place for the lazy and/or lets say the less than driven individual, but can also be a necessary place for those just not capable of producing anything more than, at best, average quality work and there is a place for that too.


There will be individual winners and losers, as they almost always are, but purely from society's point of view, I think there is really no question but that a competitive work place will produce the best results.

Are we in danger of becoming too soft on ourselves or has it already gone past that point where most people expect to be wrapped in cotton wool in their workplace?

Any thoughts?
When you ask what is best for society, remember that employees are part of "society" too

This fact is often forgotten about in arguments which pitch workers against the "rest of us". . Most adults work. They make up "society". So it must follow that what is good for workers is good for a substantial part of society as well.

As a general rule, best practice seems to indicate that a positive work environment brings the best from people

Good management skills are essential for this. Where managers are not competent, they sometimes seek to cover this up by being abusive, inconsistent, displaying favouritism, surrounding themselves with sycophantic cliques, bullying, etc..

This creates the toxic work environment where employees are deeply stressed, are angry, have low self-esteem, are often genuinely ill, but also go sick or absent because they cannot tolerate their work environment......High absenteeism is often a sign of a toxic work culture

Good management and good leadership are positive, reinforcing, goal-setting, calm, consistent, affirmative, creating an esprit de corps...Good managers command respect and loyalty. That does not mean that they are weak or easy-going, or pushovers

Of course there may be one or two workers who cannot measure up, or refuse to measure up. It is questionable if anything can be done about these. But the entire workforce should not be bullied or punished for the sake of making life difficult for the occasional recalcitrant.

The overwhelming majority of employees will respond to a positive work environment. People are bigger than their jobs. They need to feel valued, they need to feel what they are doing is valuable. They will go way beyond their narrow brief if given half a chance.

Everything comes from the top---the whole vibe of the workplace and the attitude of those working there.
 

Weevil

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45,000 posts on P.ie suggests the OP isn't employed in a very competitive environment-
 

Felixness

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I totally agree with the OP. There's been altogether too much nonsense of trying to make everybody feel special and giving people ''participation'' prizes just for taking part in something. People should be rewarded for achieving something not because we want to spare their feelings. Competition seems to be a dirty word now.
 

Franzoni

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I totally agree with the OP. There's been altogether too much nonsense of trying to make everybody feel special and giving people ''participation'' prizes just for taking part in something. People should be rewarded for achieving something not because we want to spare their feelings. Competition seems to be a dirty word now.

Fine Gael,Fianna Fail along with the likes of IBEC,the CIF ,and the various lobby groups from the hotels/hospitality and tourism sectors never shut up using it but then their version is code from dumbing down wages and conditions of employment so i can understand your confusion on the subject....
 

GDPR

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When you ask what is best for society, remember that employees are part of "society" too

This fact is often forgotten about in arguments which pitch workers against the "rest of us". . Most adults work. They make up "society". So it must follow that what is good for workers is good for a substantial part of society as well.

As a general rule, best practice seems to indicate that a positive work environment brings the best from people

Good management skills are essential for this. Where managers are not competent, they sometimes seek to cover this up by being abusive, inconsistent, displaying favouritism, surrounding themselves with sycophantic cliques, bullying, etc..

This creates the toxic work environment where employees are deeply stressed, are angry, have low self-esteem, are often genuinely ill, but also go sick or absent because they cannot tolerate their work environment......High absenteeism is often a sign of a toxic work culture

Good management and good leadership are positive, reinforcing, goal-setting, calm, consistent, affirmative, creating an esprit de corps...Good managers command respect and loyalty. That does not mean that they are weak or easy-going, or pushovers

Of course there may be one or two workers who cannot measure up, or refuse to measure up. It is questionable if anything can be done about these. But the entire workforce should not be bullied or punished for the sake of making life difficult for the occasional recalcitrant.

The overwhelming majority of employees will respond to a positive work environment. People are bigger than their jobs. They need to feel valued, they need to feel what they are doing is valuable. They will go way beyond their narrow brief if given half a chance.

Everything comes from the top---the whole vibe of the workplace and the attitude of those working there.
Not a lot to disagree with there, but within that my general point would be that if you don't push people you won't get the best results and then we all suffer.

Accepting of just whatever anyone wants to give just isn't good enough in my opinion, high standards need to be set, measured and expected, with consequences if they're regularly not achieved and I think it's good for everyone if that is clearly understood.
 

razorblade

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Quota systems need to be scraped and replaced with most experienced for the job no one should be hired, purely on the basis of their gender, sexuality, colour or religion, it should be about the productivity you can offer an employer for a thriving working environment.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

As a general environment I don't think you can without promoting one over the other.

I think you only get the best standards when you demand them and of everyone.
I'm not suggesting that standards need to be compromised. Having been fortunate enough to be an employer at one point in my life, I learned that standards are maintained by each individual differently, despite each individual having the same responsibilities.

People management is the most difficult part of being an employer (outside of the paperwork). Doing the actual work, to a high standard was, for me, the easy part. Getting the most out of the people who worked with me and ensuring that everyone was happy in their station was much more involved. What might motivate Joe, mightn't motivate Jane.
 

gatsbygirl20

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I'm not suggesting that standards need to be compromised. Having been fortunate enough to be an employer at one point in my life, I learned that standards are maintained by each individual differently, despite each individual having the same responsibilities.

People management is the most difficult part of being an employer (outside of the paperwork). Doing the actual work, to a high standard was, for me, the easy part. Getting the most out of the people who worked with me and ensuring that everyone was happy in their station was much more involved. What might motivate Joe, mightn't motivate Jane.
So true.

Hell is other people.

Merely carrying out a set of tasks--plumbing, accounting, drawing architectural plans, entering data, wiring a house--is no problem.

The problem is getting people to do what you want them to do, including those who don't want to do what you are asking them to do. Or cannot understand what you want them to do. Or are unable to do it to the standard you want.

Every day you must climb that mountain again, confront those who are difficult, drag from somewhere in your soul that enthusiasm and motivating principle--so that your employees ( or indeed students) will be infected by your enthusiasm and your motivation, and will also, in their turn, be motivated.

Each individual is, as you say, different, and responds to different management ( or teaching) styles

The whole human stuff is also in the mix---the fact that you, or they, may be exhausted from a recent illness or the sleeplessness of new parents...or may be going through a messy divorce...or be recently bereaved, or be under any number of stresses

It's a miracle so much gets done, and done well, usually.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

So true.

Hell is other people.

Merely carrying out a set of tasks--plumbing, accounting, drawing architectural plans, entering data, wiring a house--is no problem.

The problem is getting people to do what you want them to do, including those who don't want to do what you are asking them to do. Or cannot understand what you want them to do. Or are unable to do it to the standard you want.

Every day you must climb that mountain again, confront those who are difficult, drag from somewhere in your soul that enthusiasm and motivating principle--so that your employees ( or indeed students) will be infected by your enthusiasm and your motivation, and will also, in their turn, be motivated.

Each individual is, as you say, different, and responds to different management ( or teaching) styles

The whole human stuff is also in the mix---the fact that you, or they, may be exhausted from a recent illness or the sleeplessness of new parents...or may be going through a messy divorce...or be recently bereaved, or be under any number of stresses

It's a miracle so much gets done, and done well, usually.
The miracle is flexibility and awareness. Employers, managers, bosses, teachers, colonels, sergeants....at least the successful ones, the ones who constantly and consistently produce the best results, are usually flexible and keenly aware of the human condition.

There are times to be supportive, and times to challenge. Still more times to be both. Balance in all things.

Excuse me now while I go and do a bit of of yoga while contemplating the pull of ying and yang on my qi.
 

Deadlock

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There are times to be supportive, and times to challenge. Still more times to be both. Balance in all things.
To my thinking this is the crux. To identify in the individual, for each individual, the necessary intervention, and point at which to apply it. In my experience the happiest most productive people are the most autonomous. An open culture where they are helped, and where necessary, pushed towards that end, works best.

Excuse me now while I go and do a bit of of yoga while contemplating the pull of ying and yang on my qi.
Sounds painful. Don't overstretch your chakras.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

To my thinking this is the crux. To identify in the individual, for each individual, the necessary intervention, and point at which to apply it. In my experience the happiest most productive people are the most autonomous. An open culture where they are helped, and where necessary, pushed towards that end, works best.



Sounds painful. Don't overstretch your chakras.
It's a high wire act. ;)

(Some will get this reference)
 


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