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Bill to end ‘political appointment’ of judges, published by Sinn Féin


kkkkkkkkkk

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Sinn Féin publishes bill to end ‘political appointment’ of judges

“We cannot allow a ‘jobs for the boys’ attitude to permeate something so fundamentally important as the administration of justice in this State and this bill is one part of a range of measures that we intend to propose,” Mac Lochlainn said. “As well as increasing transparency and accountability in the appointment of judges, we also want to see a judicial council and complaints body that will hold judges to account, as well as a Code of Ethics that they should abide by.


Is this a positive step ?
I suppose it is about time some party took this crazy situation on.
 


Dame_Enda

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The appointment of judges without a transparent confirmation process must cease if confidence is to be restored in our justice system. That means that child rapists should not get suspended or lax sentences.

Shame on you Judge Carney.

For my part, I prefer the American system of judicial appointment for Federal offices. That is to say, the Seanad would hold confirmation hearings and ultimately a vote in full session on whether or not to appoint him.
 

Radix

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Sinn Féin publishes bill to end ‘political appointment’ of judges

“We cannot allow a ‘jobs for the boys’ attitude to permeate something so fundamentally important as the administration of justice in this State and this bill is one part of a range of measures that we intend to propose,” Mac Lochlainn said. “As well as increasing transparency and accountability in the appointment of judges, we also want to see a judicial council and complaints body that will hold judges to account, as well as a Code of Ethics that they should abide by.


Is this a positive step ?
I suppose it is about time some party took this crazy situation on.

Let me get this right.

Sinn Fein have a difficulty with jobs for boys that are not their boys.

Right!
 

APettigrew92

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The appointment of judges without a transparent confirmation process must cease if confidence is to be restored in our justice system. That means that child rapists should not get suspended or lax sentences.

Shame on you Judge Carney.

For my part, I prefer the American system of judicial appointment for Federal offices. That is to say, the Seanad would hold confirmation hearings and ultimately a vote in full session on whether or not to appoint him.
But won't that just result in the same Political outcome? That would just perpetuate the current state of affairs.

And the Seanád is a farce.

It is a good idea, but how exactly would someone go about it? And how could someone guarantee that, once in power, they themselves would not do the exact same thing.
 

storybud1

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A software programmer could probably write a program to take into account the crims past criminal record , level of crime, probability of re-offending, save us a fortune in legal aid, wasting our lives on jury time,

Just imagine some scumbag up on his 99th conviction getting free legal aid, (ignoring the fact he has 98 previous victims that we know of) and then the whole gravy train industry of barristers, lawyers, people time on Jury's etc.

This is probably the only industry in the world that is self perpetuating for the benefit of its directors/employees and not the shareholders- US the taxpayer.
 

TiredOfBeingTired

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Why have I the dirty feeling that there will be damn all change without a referendum?

The SF proposal may improve the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board .
However, as I see it, it will still be the government that makes the appointment.

Article 35.1
1. The judges of the Supreme Court, the High Court and all other Courts established in pursuance of Article 34 hereof shall be appointed by the President.

Article 13.9
9. The powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution shall be exercisable and performable by him only on the advice of the Government, save where it is provided by this Constitution that he shall act in his absolute discretion or after consultation with or in relation to the Council of State, or on the advice or nomination of, or on receipt of any other communication from, any other person or body.

Can anyone see a way around the Constitution saying that the government makes the decision?
Without a referendum?
 

Boy M5

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A software programmer could probably write a program to take into account the crims past criminal record , level of crime, probability of re-offending, save us a fortune in legal aid, wasting our lives on jury time,

Just imagine some scumbag up on his 99th conviction getting free legal aid, (ignoring the fact he has 98 previous victims that we know of) and then the whole gravy train industry of barristers, lawyers, people time on Jury's etc.

This is probably the only industry in the world that is self perpetuating for the benefit of its directors/employees and not the shareholders- US the taxpayer.
I happen to think that justice is more important than to be left to fellas smoking dope, playing dungeons and dwarves in box rooms writing computer code.
 

Boy M5

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Judges should be appointed on merit not political connections.
For a variety of reasons I don't think Sinn Féin should be leading this.
 

ivnryn

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Can anyone see a way around the Constitution saying that the government makes the decision?
Without a referendum?
My understanding is that Government powers are subject to law. Law could possibly restrict who they can nominate, but I don't think it could force them to nominate someone selected by some process.
 

Mattarigna

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Sinn Féin publishes bill to end ‘political appointment’ of judges

“We cannot allow a ‘jobs for the boys’ attitude to permeate something so fundamentally important as the administration of justice in this State and this bill is one part of a range of measures that we intend to propose,” Mac Lochlainn said. “As well as increasing transparency and accountability in the appointment of judges, we also want to see a judicial council and complaints body that will hold judges to account, as well as a Code of Ethics that they should abide by.


Is this a positive step ?
I suppose it is about time some party took this crazy situation on.
Definately, if it does as said on the tin. Long overdue.
 

Mattarigna

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Judges should be appointed on merit not political connections.
For a variety of reasons I don't think Sinn Féin should be leading this.
1) The thing is, it is really the sort of thing that should not need to be mentioned, it's that obvious.

2) TBH, I'd have more objections to FF leading this, as they absolutely abused the heck out of the power to appoint judges.
 

Mattarigna

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Why have I the dirty feeling that there will be damn all change without a referendum?

The SF proposal may improve the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board .
However, as I see it, it will still be the government that makes the appointment.

Article 35.1
1. The judges of the Supreme Court, the High Court and all other Courts established in pursuance of Article 34 hereof shall be appointed by the President.

Article 13.9
9. The powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution shall be exercisable and performable by him only on the advice of the Government, save where it is provided by this Constitution that he shall act in his absolute discretion or after consultation with or in relation to the Council of State, or on the advice or nomination of, or on receipt of any other communication from, any other person or body.

Can anyone see a way around the Constitution saying that the government makes the decision?
Without a referendum?
Can it be argued that a President can take advice without acting on it? That's the only loophole I see. We could need a referendum.
 

TiredOfBeingTired

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My understanding is that Government powers are subject to law. Law could possibly restrict who they can nominate,
Not sure.

This is why I looked up the constitution.
My opinion: "Once something is in the constitution, then unless the constitution says "subject to laws", then laws are irrelevant. In that case, only the Constitution and the Supreme Court's interpretation counts. There may be a few minor restrictions on appointments in the Constitution, but I suspect the Government can appoint nearly anyone."

The only limitations in the Constitution I can find about appointing anyone is that they are not a member of the Oireachtas, have no other job and they will take the oath.
See Article 34 & 35 BUNREACHT NA hIREANN

...but I don't think it could force them to nominate someone selected by some process.
I'd agree with that.
 

TiredOfBeingTired

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Can it be argued that a President can take advice without acting on it? That's the only loophole I see.
Doubtful
There are very few things a President can do independently of the government.
Can do: Refuse a dissolution of the Dail.
Can do: Refer a bill to the Supreme Court.
Cant do: Leave the country!
I dont think there are very more examples.

We could need a referendum.
Once "Appointing Judges" was mentioned, I suspected this.
 

gerrymac

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Judges should be appointed on merit not political connections.
For a variety of reasons I don't think Sinn Féin should be leading this.
Well it seems like they have at least started a debate on the issue,and its far from the first time SF have led on an important question,fair dues.
 

brujon

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Pity that they could not end the debate on the Murder of Jean McConville by giving clarity on the participants involved.
 

Analyzer

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Sinn Féin publishes bill to end ‘political appointment’ of judges

“We cannot allow a ‘jobs for the boys’ attitude to permeate something so fundamentally important as the administration of justice in this State and this bill is one part of a range of measures that we intend to propose,” Mac Lochlainn said. “As well as increasing transparency and accountability in the appointment of judges, we also want to see a judicial council and complaints body that will hold judges to account, as well as a Code of Ethics that they should abide by.


Is this a positive step ?
I suppose it is about time some party took this crazy situation on.
Brining the topic up for discussion is an embarrassment to bullShatter.
 

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