Bishop says media 'unfair and unjust' on RCC handling of clerical child abuse

SilverLining

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CATHOLIC BISHOP of Elphin Christopher Jones has accused the media of being “unfair and unjust” to the Catholic Church through a concentration on the handling by church authorities of the clerical child sex-abuse issue.

“Could I just say with all this emphasis on cover-up, the cover-up has gone on for centuries, not just in the church… It’s going on today in families, in communities, in societies. Why are you singling out the church?” he asked.
The Irish Times - Thursday, March 11, 2010
Bishop says media 'unfair and unjust'


The media are bugging them ? I don't think so. If anything the media are going easy on the RCC. If the pressure was really being brought on the RCC officials would be screaming.

This latest spin is that we were not the only group abusing children. Yes, but the RCC was in a very unusual position of trust within society and took advantage of this. These cult leaders cannot be christians by any way. How is this behaviour in any way following christian teachings ? They are acting like political or corporate leaders with damage limitation to save their own skins above all else.

First they ask their followers to bale them out and now they are trying to shift blame to anybody but the RCC. They are having a laugh or what ?

Meanwhile the victims/survivors of RCC crimes against humanity are having to live with the knowledge that their attackers/abusers were mostly not brought to justice.
 


Toland

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The Irish Times - Thursday, March 11, 2010
Bishop says media 'unfair and unjust'


The media are bugging them ? I don't think so. If anything the media are going easy on the RCC. If the pressure was really being brought on the RCC officials would be screaming.

This latest spin is that we were not the only group abusing children. Yes, but the RCC was in a very unusual position of trust within society and took advantage of this. These cult leaders cannot be christians by any way. How is this behaviour in any way following christian teachings ? They are acting like political or corporate leaders with damage limitation to save their own skins above all else.

First they ask their followers to bale them out and now they are trying to shift blame to anybody but the RCC. They are having a laugh or what ?

Meanwhile the victims/survivors of RCC crimes against humanity are having to live with the knowledge that their attackers/abusers were mostly not brought to justice.
Christopher complains that not only were the Church not the only ones engaging in abuse, they were not the only ones engaging in cover up.

The moral turpitude of this attitude is breathtaking!
 

edor

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I don't know of other groups who preached on no sex before marriage, gay is a sin etc. The bishop really is in an ivory tower. Every time a bishop speaks these days they damage the church more.

This says it all really: 'Bishop Jones also described the Bishop of Galway Martin Drennan, who served as an Auxiliary Bishop of Dublin for seven years during the period investigated by the Murphy Commission, as “a scholar and a holy man” and that any reference to him in the Murphy report had been positive.'
 

Mitsui2

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Vinnie B showed the footage of that "press conference" (hard to dignify it with the name) last night. As his panelists agreed, it suggests that their Lordships are currently inhabiting an area somewhere slightly to the west of Lalaland.
 

Toland

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Bishop: 95pc of abuse outside Church - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

It is all cover-up. No one wants to admit in a family that there is a problem of that nature. I am not justifying it. ... Could I just say with all this emphasis on cover-up, the cover-up has gone on for centuries, not just in the church… It’s going on today in families, in communities, in societies. Why are you singling out the church?


Who the bloody hell is Christopher comparing with the institutional church?

With the wives of incestuous fathers who prefer not to know or are bullied into silence? With the communities it controlled? With the society it provided the 'moral compass' for?

Does not the Church claim some competence in the area of ethics?
 
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SilverLining

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If the Irish RCC employees are coming out with this sort of stuff. What nonsense is going to be in the upcoming letter from their boss in Rome ? Let them at it. Surely their "followers" cannot take much more of this and will see the light and go elsewhere ? People continue to attend services and meanwhile this BS is coming back at them. I imagine, though, that most of the congregations are probably mostly over 50. Any time I pass churches on Sunday, this seems to be the case.
 

SirHenryGrattan

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Most child abuse occurs outside the Church now because there are very few residential child institutions and those that exist are not run by the RCC. If the RCC had not been on such a mission to "save souls" for most of the last century and had not taken on responsibility for running the industrial schools they would not be in the position they are in now.

Most of the rage directed against the RCC pertains to historical crimes. I for one cannot recall a case of clerical child abuse in an RCC school or institution over the last 20 years. Even the cases in Germany date back to the 50s/60/s70s.
 
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Its what you would accept from the same organisation that felt it was more important to protect its reputation than to act in the way they themselves allegedly subscribe to, namely, standing by the innocent and denouncing the 'wicked'.

The bare facts are thus; if this was a smaller sect, chances are it would be seriously monitored in future and it certainly wouldnt retain any links to childrens organisations, the fact that they are still involved in the running of schools is deeply disturbing, not least because they are still able to indulge in their desire to fill childrens heads with superstitious junk.

I truly pity anyone who has 'faith' in the Catholic Church after everything that has gone on, anyone can see that they have little interest in the teachings of Jesus Christ and every interest in continuing to wield power throughs its membership. If you truly believe people like Cardinal Connell actually care about their 'flock' need only look to see what his reaction was when he believed he wasnt being observed, namely his treatment of Andrew Madded. He nor the pope care little for the average member of Church and this is born out by their lack of empathy, sympathy or concern for abuse survivors.
 

Mitsui2

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Have they lost all sense of perspective?
In order to have lost something, you must at some stage have had it in the first place, AS.

Surely you (of all people, I'm tempted to add) aren't suggesting that a sense of perspective has been one of these people's defining (or even secondary) characteristics?
 

Toland

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I for one cannot recall a case of clerical child abuse in an RCC school or institution over the last 20 years. Even the cases in Germany date back to the 50s/60/s70s.
Imo, this is primarily because we as parents now have the knowledge and wisdom not to let them have unsupervised access to children.
 
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Toland

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In order to have lost something, you must at some stage have had it in the first place, AS.

Surely you (of all people, I'm tempted to add) aren't suggesting that a sense of perspective has been one of these people's defining (or even secondary) characteristics?
You are, of course, quite right. ... You'd think they'd have some modicum of political nous, though.

Apparently not.

It's like they're collectively intent on political suicide.

Do they know already what's in the papal letter?
 

Mitsui2

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Most of the rage directed against the RCC pertains to historical crimes. I for one cannot recall a case of clerical child abuse in an RCC school or institution over the last 20 years. Even the cases in Germany date back to the 50s/60/s70s.
Sir Henry, at this point most of the rage pertains to the institutional cover-up, whose latest manifestations are of a much more recent vintage - which would seem, indeed, to be still ongoing in a slightly different form of which the attitudes displayed at the press conference appear to be an example.
 

SirHenryGrattan

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People need to remember that there has been a sea change in public attitudes since the 1960s. Historically, public opinion was unsympathetic to those who committed sexual transgressions or exhibited delinquent behaviour.

Australian governments have just made a whole series of apologies for the historical treatment of children in their care; the latest being the unwed mothers.

State to apologise for 'harsh' adoption acts - The West Australian


WA is poised to be the first State to publicly acknowledge the aggressive adoption practices which resulted in thousands of mothers being unlawfully separated from their babies after giving birth out of wedlock.

Health Minister Kim Hames has revealed he is personally overseeing the creation of a memorial to the families affected by State hospital and welfare practices during the 1940s to the early 1980s.

Dr Hames is also likely to read an apology on behalf of the State Government either in Parliament or at a dedication ceremony opening the memorial at a yet to be determined location. Dr Hames said many women and families had been emotionally damaged and he wanted to help them heal.

"You look back on those attitudes of the day and wonder how we could be so harsh," he said.


"Things like taking children away from their mothers as soon as they were born and not letting them see or touch them. We are apologising in the same way as with the Stolen Generation, recognising that those practices . . . were ones that today wouldn't be acceptable and that they caused considerable hurt and harm."

Experts say tens of thousands of WA babies were taken illegally when their unmarried mothers were prevented from seeing, touching, naming or bonding with their children immediately after birth.
 

Sync

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Hilariously disconnected from reality. It's like the Mafia using a defence of "Well the families never talked to the police when we shot that guy, so why are you just blaming us?" Ridiculous statement.

Irish RCC really need to hire a decent PR person quick and then tell the rest of their employees to shut up. If there was a huge problem in McDonalds do you think you'd let every branch manager say whatever they wanted?
 

Toland

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People need to remember that there has been a sea change in public attitudes since the 1960s. Historically, public opinion was unsympathetic to those who committed sexual transgressions or exhibited delinquent behaviour.

Australian governments have just made a whole series of apologies for the historical treatment of children in their care; the latest being the unwed mothers.

State to apologise for 'harsh' adoption acts - The West Australian


WA is poised to be the first State to publicly acknowledge the aggressive adoption practices which resulted in thousands of mothers being unlawfully separated from their babies after giving birth out of wedlock.

Health Minister Kim Hames has revealed he is personally overseeing the creation of a memorial to the families affected by State hospital and welfare practices during the 1940s to the early 1980s.

Dr Hames is also likely to read an apology on behalf of the State Government either in Parliament or at a dedication ceremony opening the memorial at a yet to be determined location. Dr Hames said many women and families had been emotionally damaged and he wanted to help them heal.

"You look back on those attitudes of the day and wonder how we could be so harsh," he said.


"Things like taking children away from their mothers as soon as they were born and not letting them see or touch them. We are apologising in the same way as with the Stolen Generation, recognising that those practices . . . were ones that today wouldn't be acceptable and that they caused considerable hurt and harm."

Experts say tens of thousands of WA babies were taken illegally when their unmarried mothers were prevented from seeing, touching, naming or bonding with their children immediately after birth.
Irrelevant at best.

Have you ever speculated as to why public opinion was unsympathetic to [a particular category of] those who committed sexual transgressions or exhibited delinquent behaviour?

Could it have any connection with attitudes inculcated by religious organisations, which aggressively demanded and received unquestioning deference.
 

SilverLining

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Irish RCC really need to hire a decent PR person quick and then tell the rest of their employees to shut up.
Why ? The RCC in this denial format doesn't deserve to be saved. Anybody who really follows and believes in christian teachings should leave now. The RCC organisation is not christian, it is all about wealth and power. These "holy men" are nothing more than politicians running a cult.

Let them at it.
 

Abacus

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Bhoy, Oh Bhoy......how I would love to have had the opportunity to put my finger in the face of Cleric Jones and told him: "You are being spotlighted here because you and your chosen brethren here were the leaders......you were the standbearers......you set the tone.....you wrote/write the book of instructions.....you tell us and interpret for and even purport to order us to do certain things in the name of religion and the church......are you wilfully blind or what....why can't you see what everyone not blinded by too much deference can see.....that you are being called to account.

And what is you response to all this ? Smoke and mirrors and talk of miscalculations and errors of judgment and misplaced trust and faults and weaknesses......listen, dear deluded Cleric just get off the stage and hang your head in shame.

If you cannot see the totality of the wrongdoing and the scale of it then you have no right whatever to remain as a church leader. You are an IMPOSTOR.

You and your ilk did WRONG.....you were complicit in the commission of CRIME....simple as.
 

Mitsui2

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People need to remember that there has been a sea change in public attitudes since the 1960s.
This is certainly true with regard to even the Catholic laity's willingness to accept uncritically anything their church hierarchy chooses to tell them.

But it's the Church hierarchy, at least at management levels, which doesn't seem to have taken this fact on board.

One must suspect that this is one more consequence of JPII's preference for promoting yesmen and good company men at the expense of those who seemed more at home in the 20th century.

Historically, public opinion was unsympathetic to those who committed sexual transgressions or exhibited delinquent behaviour.
You say this with particular reference to unmarried mothers, but I don't think that at any time the public at large - including the Catholic laity - would have looked on that as being on a par with child rape.

In this - to judge by the amount of time the Catholic Church spent condemning sexuality generally while implicitly condoning its own officials' rape of children - the official RC Church apparantly differs from the rest of us.

The thing is that the public - having, as many would think, got its priorities right for once - still regards child rape as both extremely transgressive and extremely delinquent, whereas the Catholic Church, to judge by both its current and historic behaviour, does not.

It is also clear, from the Church's attempts to hide these matters, that it was at all times (at least at some level) perfectly well aware of this discrepancy between its own view and the general public's (including its own "faithful"), and - however it may be tarted up - decided, at senior levels, to play the "faithful" for mugs.

The only situation they were truly comfortable with as regards child-rape by clerics was one of complete and utter silence. Now that the rock has been removed and the light of day is shining in on the situation, they seem to cast about helplessly mouthing increasingly more unreal and less coherent excuses.

What would appear to be happening now, in the Irish context, is that some of the hierarchy at least are trying to assume - however outrageously - some sort of mantle of victimhood in this. It does not, thank heaven, appear to be working.
 


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