• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

'black people are less intelligent than white people'.....


kerrynorth

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
....according to Noble Prize winning scientist Dr. James Watson. Thanks be to Jesus I have a link for this or I will banned for ever more http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/mhmhcweymhgb/.

It certainly breathes life into this debate considering that he is a person who discovered part of the DNA. His comment about being inherently pessimistic about the future of Africa is also interesting! But I thought this one takes the biscuit: he said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.

Wheres Angelcountry when you want him? :D
 

Akrasia

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
1,128
that guy deserves a ****in slap in the mouth the amount of damage he has done to civil rights with that one statement, I don't care how old he is.

An absolutely ridiculous statement. He admits that they haven't even found genes responsible for intelligence yet, but he claims that 'from what he has seen' blacks aren't as clever as whites... It seems to me that he is basing this entirely on this
“people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.
 

Munion

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
319
A fairly standard comment for Watson. The guy's been trying to use his gravitas in the scientific world to push his pretty crazy far-right political views for years.
 

kerrynorth

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
Munion said:
A fairly standard comment for Watson. The guy's been trying to use his gravitas in the scientific world to push his pretty crazy far-right political views for years.
They are talking about it on Newstalk. The guy they have on is saying this par for the course with Watson, that he has a record of shooting his mouth off. He also referred to previous comments he made about women scientists!
 

Barbarian

Active member
Joined
Jan 13, 2004
Messages
156

Timoleague

New member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
4
This is all a load of auld b*****x. The facts are that average population IQ testing shows that all races are roughly equal, but that blacks do slightly worse than whites who in turn do slightly worse than Asians and particularly of Jews of Eastern Europe(Ashkenazim) descent.

However what this doesn't take account of is
1 - IQ is not of itself an infallible guide to intelligence, amongst other things it ignores common sense. I suspect Watson has plenty of IQ and feck all common sense.

2 - Whilst the population wide stats are there - this of itself (even if true), does not mean that all blacks are stupid or for that all Ashkenazim Jews are geniuses.
 

farnaby

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,967
Re: 'black people are less intelligent than white people'...

kerrynorth said:
he said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.
Scientist advocating layman use of adecdotal evidence to prove racial differences regarding an elusive, partially-constructed human property... Alert Richard Dawkins - adherence to objective scientific method obviously isn't as widespread as he suggests.

Why 'black employees'? Obviously didn't occur to him that white folks could have black bosses. I've had 3 black bosses in my working career - 2 highly intelligent, academically-distinguished hard-working leaders, one lazy, thick, excuse-filled eejit. I guess that completely disproves Watson's statements by his criteria for verification.
 

Rahood

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
58
The article quoted out of context is from the [Sunday Times]

[snip]
He says that he is “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really”, and I know that this “hot potato” is going to be difficult to address. His hope is that everyone is equal, but he counters that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”. He says that you should not discriminate on the basis of colour, because “there are many people of colour who are very talented, but don’t promote them when they haven’t succeeded at the lower level”. He writes that “there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so”.

When asked how long it might take for the key genes in affecting differences in human intelligence to be found, his “back-of-the-envelope answer” is 15 years. However, he wonders if even 10 years will pass. In his mission to make children more DNA-literate, the geneticist explains that he has opened a DNA learning centre on the borders of Harlem in New York. He is also recruiting minorities at the lab and, he tells me, has just accepted a black girl “but,” he comments, “there’s no one to recruit.”

[/snip]

It should be noted that Dr.Watson is on a book tour this week..........
 

seanad voter

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
2,262
Did he not say anything about Green people being more intelligent than Orange ones ?
 
9

905

This debate raises the whole issue of science and society. Is science only accepted when it suits society's values? I'm not for a minute saying he's right, but in a more racist future he would be seen as preaching truth in the wilderness. Much as peole who claimed racism was a meaningless term were ignored through much of the glory days of scientific racism. Which, lets not forget, was only a few decades ago.
Genetic studies have always been dancing along the edge of political correctness, with designer babies and quests for the gay gene.
 

Justin

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
60
905 said:
This debate raises the whole issue of science and society. Is science only accepted when it suits society's values? I'm not for a minute saying he's right, but in a more racist future he would be seen as preaching truth in the wilderness. Much as peole who claimed racism was a meaningless term were ignored through much of the glory days of scientific racism. Which, lets not forget, was only a few decades ago.
Genetic studies have always been dancing along the edge of political correctness, with designer babies and quests for the gay gene.
Science and society are always integral,how could it be otherwise...
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,208
Website
www.quizmatic.com
Do not confuse his scientific expertise (one very specific branch of biochemistry) with his expertise on the relative intelligence of populations, which is ffucck all.
He is speaking here as an ordinary Joe Public, and not a very nice one at that. Sure one time he said all women should be genetically engineered to be pretty.
 
9

905

Justin said:
905 said:
This debate raises the whole issue of science and society. Is science only accepted when it suits society's values? I'm not for a minute saying he's right, but in a more racist future he would be seen as preaching truth in the wilderness. Much as peole who claimed racism was a meaningless term were ignored through much of the glory days of scientific racism. Which, lets not forget, was only a few decades ago.
Genetic studies have always been dancing along the edge of political correctness, with designer babies and quests for the gay gene.
Science and society are always integral,how could it be otherwise...
Except when they're not. This man is claiming that there is reason to believe that racism is a scientifically valid concept. From what I can gather from the above threads he has raised troubling questions about homosexuality and women scientists (bearing in mind he worked with one). These are not views which are acceptable in today's society.
 

Justin

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
60
905 said:
Justin said:
905 said:
This debate raises the whole issue of science and society. Is science only accepted when it suits society's values? I'm not for a minute saying he's right, but in a more racist future he would be seen as preaching truth in the wilderness. Much as peole who claimed racism was a meaningless term were ignored through much of the glory days of scientific racism. Which, lets not forget, was only a few decades ago.
Genetic studies have always been dancing along the edge of political correctness, with designer babies and quests for the gay gene.
Science and society are always integral,how could it be otherwise...
Except when they're not. This man is claiming that there is reason to believe that racism is a scientifically valid concept. From what I can gather from the above threads he has raised troubling questions about homosexuality and women scientists (bearing in mind he worked with one). These are not views which are acceptable in today's society.

Yes he's 'claiming' it at a time when there's a political view that Africa is a basket case and there's nowt 'we' can do about it.
 
9

905

Hmm, I see your point but I still think most people put the African crisis down to corruption, neo-colonialism and bad managment, which are social ills and not neccessarily biological.
 

Defeated Romanticist

Active member
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
277
My comment on this issue is a big fat so what?

There are smart black people, there are smart white people,
There are stupid black people, there are stupid white people,

Why should someone be regarded as different because others with the same skin colour are thick/smart?

Racism like most of the other ills in our society is derived from an attempt to group people irregardless of their individuality. When we start to address people as individuals with the respect that entails, the percieved abuses that certain individuals suffer will dissapate but not until.

Attempts at both irradicating differences and accentuating them between groups of people are, have always been, and always will be, rationalised racism.
 

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,297
Or perhaps, far more terrifying for those politically correct types, people are not all equal. And of course this is a book tour and the more controversial a topic, the more books will be sold.

Regards...jmcc
 

alonso

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,573
If we took US voting patterns as a sample, I reckon his thesis may be easily rubbished
 
9

905

Defeated Romanticist said:
I comment on this issue is a big fat so what?

There are smart black people, there are smart white people,
There are stupid black people, there are stupid white people,

Why should someone be regarded as different because others with the same skin colour are thick/smart?

Racism like most of the other ills in our society is derived from an attempt to group people irregardless of their individuality. When we start to address people as individuals with the respect that entails, the percieved abuses that certain individuals suffer will dissapate but not until.

Attempts at both irradicating differences and accentuating them between groups of people are, have always been, and always will be, rationalised racism.
This will get me in a lot of trouble but here goes.
Group identity is one thing most authorities, at the moment, ascribe to genetics. The practical benefits are obvious. People have created identities out of almost anything: religion, skin colour, ethnicity, favourite soccor club, parish boundaries, their own names (see these strange get-togethers of people with Jones for a surname etc.). Individuals are simply not on the genetic cards, they're the people living in caves on the outskirts of society and not contributing genetically.
I don't know what you mean by rationalised racism, racism is the belief that people cab be grouped according to their physical (ie. gentic) structure. Other group identities are created around all sorts of things. That's not saying they're not as destructive.
 

Defeated Romanticist

Active member
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
277
905 said:
Defeated Romanticist said:
I comment on this issue is a big fat so what?

There are smart black people, there are smart white people,
There are stupid black people, there are stupid white people,

Why should someone be regarded as different because others with the same skin colour are thick/smart?

Racism like most of the other ills in our society is derived from an attempt to group people irregardless of their individuality. When we start to address people as individuals with the respect that entails, the percieved abuses that certain individuals suffer will dissapate but not until.

Attempts at both irradicating differences and accentuating them between groups of people are, have always been, and always will be, rationalised racism.
This will get me in a lot of trouble but here goes.
Group identity is one thing most authorities, at the moment, ascribe to genetics. The practical benefits are obvious. People have created identities out of almost anything: religion, skin colour, ethnicity, favourite soccor club, parish boundaries, their own names (see these strange get-togethers of people with Jones for a surname etc.). Individuals are simply not on the genetic cards, they're the people living in caves on the outskirts of society and not contributing genetically.
I don't know what you mean by rationalised racism, racism is the belief that people cab be grouped according to their physical (ie. gentic) structure. Other group identities are created around all sorts of things. That's not saying they're not as destructive.
Have you ever considered that it is the group identity that is the problem, is the reason for wars and genocides and not the solution. Nietzsche wrote of the death of God. Substitute Society for God and you will liberate the individual. There is no Society and the sooner we realise and accept that the better. People in the west liberated themselves from the crutch of religon now the should liberate their minds from the crutch of the many, the society, the group. It isn't easy to be a self-identified individual but if you value Truth you must accept the truth.
 
Top