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Bobby Sands - Hero or villan


fluffykontbiscuits

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Was watching Reeling in the Years last night and the year was 1981 and there was an interesting segment on Bobby Sands. I admit its one area of Irish/British history that I was not very well up on but have done quite a bit of reading since and would like to know whether you think Bobby Sands was a true martyr in the sense that his death galvinised Republicanism and enabled more of the world to see the oppression Catholics suffered at the time or was he a complete scumbag in that his death and martyrdom was used by the IRA as a stick to beat the British and carry out a campaign of violence? Interesting quote taken from the Chiacgo Tribune that I came across that was published just after his death...

"Mahatma Gandhi used the hunger strike to move his countrymen to abstain from fratricide. Bobby Sands' deliberate slow suicide is intended to precipitate civil war"
"Bobby Sands and Mahatma Gandhi"
Chicago Tribune, 28 April 1981, 1-15



1981 Hunger Strikes
 

SevenStars

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Originally when the Troubles started the Brits did give political status to the Republican POWs...then the descision was taken to try and break the resistance to occupation in the prisons...Suddenly the screws stopped calling people by their names and only refered to them by number, their clothes were taken away and they were forced to wear the uniform of common criminals....Then the beatings and the torture started....Bobby Sands laid down his life for his comrades in the cages and no greater love can a man have than to lay down his life for his friends.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q98EcxrOr6w]YouTube - Ninety Miles to Dublin - Christy Moore[/ame]
 

pjoz

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Was watching Reeling in the Years last night and the year was 1981 and there was an interesting segment on Bobby Sands. I admit its one area of Irish/British history that I was not very well up on but have done quite a bit of reading since and would like to know whether you think Bobby Sands was a true martyr in the sense that his death galvinised Republicanism and enabled more of the world to see the oppression Catholics suffered at the time or was he a complete scumbag in that his death and martyrdom was used by the IRA as a stick to beat the British and carry out a campaign of violence? Interesting quote taken from the Chiacgo Tribune that I came across that was published just after his death...


"Bobby Sands and Mahatma Gandhi"
Chicago Tribune, 28 April 1981, 1-15



1981 Hunger Strikes
May I suggest rather than take a straw poll of opinion from this forum to decide your feelings on the issue you do further research yourself...I guarantee it will prove rewarding,regardless of the opinion you form, at least it will be your own...to help you along the way may I suggest Writings from Prision by Bobby himself form part of that research...
 

eoghanacht

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Was watching Reeling in the Years last night and the year was 1981 and there was an interesting segment on Bobby Sands. I admit its one area of Irish/British history that I was not very well up on but have done quite a bit of reading since and would like to know whether you think Bobby Sands was a true martyr in the sense that his death galvinised Republicanism and enabled more of the world to see the oppression Catholics suffered at the time or was he a complete scumbag in that his death and martyrdom was used by the IRA as a stick to beat the British and carry out a campaign of violence? Interesting quote taken from the Chiacgo Tribune that I came across that was published just after his death...


"Bobby Sands and Mahatma Gandhi"
Chicago Tribune, 28 April 1981, 1-15



1981 Hunger Strikes
So because Bobby Sands death and that of the other hunger striker were used by the Provo's this makes him a scumbag?

So was Thomas Ashe a scumbag?

Any man prepared to sacrifice his own life for his beliefs deserves respect imo.

Que the resident Unionist troll and his jokes about slimmer of the year.
 

fluffykontbiscuits

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May I suggest rather than take a straw poll of opinion from this forum to decide your feelings on the issue you do further research yourself...I guarantee it will prove rewarding,regardless of the opinion you form, at least it will be your own...to help you along the way may I suggest Writings from Prision by Bobby himself form part of that research...
I would be open to reading his writings and indeed any links you can recommend are welcome. Im always open to new ideas and quotes :)
 

SevenStars

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Was watching Reeling in the Years last night and the year was 1981 and there was an interesting segment on Bobby Sands. I admit its one area of Irish/British history that I was not very well up on but have done quite a bit of reading since and would like to know whether you think Bobby Sands was a true martyr in the sense that his death galvinised Republicanism and enabled more of the world to see the oppression Catholics suffered at the time or was he a complete scumbag in that his death and martyrdom was used by the IRA as a stick to beat the British and carry out a campaign of violence? Interesting quote taken from the Chiacgo Tribune that I came across that was published just after his death...





1981 Hunger Strikes
It was the Brits who in letting him die gave the stick as you put it to the Republican movement to beat them with.
 

fluffykontbiscuits

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So because Bobby Sands death and that of the other hunger striker were used by the Provo's this makes him a scumbag?

So was Thomas Ashe a scumbag?

Any man prepared to sacrifice his own life for his beliefs deserves respect imo.

Que the resident Unionist troll and his jokes about slimmer of the year.

You tell me, thats why I posted it in the form of a question, I used numerous terms to describe the man..what do you feel about him, what did he mean to you?
 

eoghanacht

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It was the Brits who in letting him die gave the stick as you put it to the Republican movement to beat them with.
Now, now SS we ALL know who was responsible for Bobby's death, well if not Bobbys def most of the other ten.
 

Keith-M

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Neither, irrelevent possibly, a conduit to the Shinners realising that there was more to be achieved through the ballot box than the armelite, certainly. But are the Shinners doing anything with the power that they have that SDLP wouldn't/couldn't have done?
 

Cato

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Any man prepared to sacrifice his own life for his beliefs deserves respect imo.
I really depends on the beliefs in my opinion.

(I'll refrain from posting my usual image for this topic. It got SS and myself in trouble the last time!)
 

SevenStars

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Now, now SS we ALL know who was responsible for Bobby's death, well if not Bobbys def most of the other ten.
The prob with that conspiracy theory is that if the Brits knew that Gerry was deliberately refusing a deal for a propaganda purposes why wouldnt they have made it public? It makes no sense.

Because people put so much trust and love into Gerry and he betrayed that people will believe anything about them.
 

eoghanacht

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You tell me, thats why I posted it in the form of a question, I used numerous terms to describe the man..what do you feel about him, what did he mean to you?
He is a hero to put it simply, a very talented human being. I think he would have lead the Republican movement better than that sleveen ger.
 

Thac0man

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"Bobby Sands and Mahatma Gandhi"
Chicago Tribune, 28 April 1981, 1-15
Whether hero or villian, Sands was no Mahatma Gandhi. He was part of an organisation that carried out a decades long campaign of intimidation against dissenting nationalist voices and himself was aparty to violent acts. Hero or Villian? I don't care. The only positive I could say for sure of him is that he was definitely not a British informer, which is something that cannot be said for many whose republican political careers and reputations benefitted from his sacrafice. So maybe the question should be; Bobby Sands, tragic hero or naive fool?
 

Sync

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I really depends on the beliefs in my opinion.

(I'll refrain from posting my usual image for this topic. It got SS and myself in trouble the last time!)
Oh let it go! :D

I think here's a fine place to have the discussion you wanted, namely whether or not suicide is heroic etc. The other thread really wasn't.
 

fluffykontbiscuits

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Oh let it go! :D

I think here's a fine place to have the discussion you wanted, namely whether or not suicide is heroic etc. The other thread really wasn't.
Thats another aspect now that you brought it up thats interesting...was his suicide a brave thing that he did?
 

Aindriu

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Whether hero or villian, Sands was no Mahatma Gandhi. He was part of an organisation that carried out a decades long campaign of intimidation against dissenting nationalist voices and himself was aparty to violent acts. Hero or Villian? I don't care. The only positive I could say for sure of him is that he was definitely not a British informer, which is something that cannot be said for many whose republican political careers and reputations benefitted from his sacrafice. So maybe the question should be; Bobby Sands, tragic hero or naive fool?
+1

He was a very talented writer and could quite easily have made a good living out of it if only he had taken a different route in his life.

Personally, whilst I applaud the courage of his convictions in choosing to die in such a horrific and painful way, I believe his death was totally in vain.
 
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