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Border poll


centauro

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Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
1,549
Sinn Fein seem to be steaming ahead, pushing for a border poll...I've no real view on it, other than it will cost a lot of money and will I have to pay? The other question is what would we be voting for? Is there somewhere I can read up on Sinn Feins plans? will a garda ford fiesta just trundle up from Dundalk, the boot stuffed with flegs for all the public buildings? We should be told.

Sinn Féin in the coming weeks will launch a campaign for a Border poll on a united Ireland, Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams has said in a new year’s statement.
SF to seek Border poll on united Ireland - The Irish Times - Wed, Jan 02, 2013
 

Legolas

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Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
2,861
There is no point. They only want one so they can set Itin motion for every 7 years. Depressing.
 

Covenanter

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Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
10,406
There is no point. They only want one so they can set Itin motion for every 7 years. Depressing.
If the poll was a flop for them would it still have to be held again in seven years? If so then the Sinners are deliberately trying to create instability.
 

between the bridges

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Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,651
SF/IRA would run a mile from a border poll the result would make them a even bigger laughing stock...
 

DavidCaldwell

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Jun 9, 2011
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3,981
I would be in favour of holding a border poll.

But if we have repeated polls, would they also be repeated after a vote in favour of NI being part of the Republic.
 

Ren84

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Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
50,016
There is no point. They only want one so they can set Itin motion for every 7 years. Depressing.
Not true. There's no obligation to hold a poll every seven years after the first one. That's just the minimum time span permitted between polls.
 

Glaucon

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Aug 13, 2012
Messages
8,308
Much like the prospect of a separate NI rugby team, it is much harder to create something new, than to merely continue with what is in place. Even if the population was 80 per cent Nationalist, a united Ireland would not be guaranteed, given the largesse of the English exchequer in the North.

Pushing for a border boll at this juncture makes little sense in my view. It will be defeated, though likely by less than many think, I'd say the UI vote could get as high as 38 to 40 per cent.

The time for it is in 25 to 30 years, when Unionist demographics have irretrievably tilted, and Loyalism's addiction to ethnic cleansing and murder has been cowed or otherwise mollified.
 
C

Castle Ray

If the poll was a flop for them would it still have to be held again in seven years? If so then the Sinners are deliberately trying to create instability.
It doesn't have to be held every 7 years thereafter, it just can't be held for at least another 7 years.
 

belfast1981

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Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
3,668
Alright, they are putting a plan in motion, which I guess is their no1 aim.

But lets wait and see what their plans are for a UI and how to incorperate the new 6 counties and 1.5m extra people first. It's all and well to push a border poll, but if they don't have a great exit strategy as to what happens next then they will be well and truely voted down.
 

Global Justice

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Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
13,520
The GFA doesn't restrict the amount of polls on the national question. Seems scared unionists want to add new stipulations and laws on the issue. Time is on our side :)

Also OP, you're worried about the financial implications of yourself in this hypothetical sense but not worried over the £4million (so far) in resources it has cost to police and clean up the undemocratic dilsoyalist fleg riots?
 
C

Castle Ray

Bring it on, id like to see the debate held regardless of a fairly predictable outcome.
What debate? Nationalists have no plan for what they propose. All they want is continued sectarian circling of wagons. It keeps their voters angry, hating and voting. They don't want a shared future, they seek division and majority rule through outbreeding. It should be done swiftly and forgotten about enabling society here to heal or else ignored completely for the sectarian stunt that it is intended to serve.
 

Tommythesash

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Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
5,214
There is no point. They only want one so they can set Itin motion for every 7 years. Depressing.

There is a point. In contrast to Scotland who can only launch it's referendum once, Ireland can hold a border poll every seven years and eventually a majority will vote to remove it. Furthermore, SF/IRA are quietly campaiging to include all counties that border Ulster to be included in the vote.
 

Glaucon

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Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Messages
8,308
What debate? Nationalists have no plan for what they propose. All they want is continued sectarian circling of wagons. It keeps their voters angry, hating and voting. They don't want a shared future, they seek division and majority rule through outbreeding. It should be done swiftly and forgotten about enabling society here to heal or else ignored completely for the sectarian stunt that it is intended to serve.
As long as Nationalists constitute a large, and especially a growing, part of the population, there won't just be one referendum, there will be many.

Quebec had an independence referendum in 1980 which was defeated 60 per cent against to 40 per cent for. 15 years later it failed by only 1.2 per cent. If there were a large English-speaking population, I'd bet that it probably would have won because Nationalists would have been able to rally more emotional arguments, but anti-English language laws passed caused a large proportion of English-speakers to clear out during the 1970s and 1980s so it had to be played more on economics than on defending French.

That's the sad fact of this - it will never end until one side wins conclusively. Unionists, despite enforcing the most bigoted government in Western Europe, failed to get rid of diminish the Nationalist proportion of the population enough from 1922 to 1972 to ensure their position in the UK was secure over the long-term.
 

Gurdiev

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
7,239
Much like the prospect of a separate NI rugby team, it is much harder to create something new, than to merely continue with what is in place. Even if the population was 80 per cent Nationalist, a united Ireland would not be guaranteed, given the largesse of the English exchequer in the North.

Pushing for a border boll at this juncture makes little sense in my view. It will be defeated, though likely by less than many think, I'd say the UI vote could get as high as 38 to 40 per cent.

The time for it is in 25 to 30 years, when Unionist demographics have irretrievably tilted, and Loyalism's addiction to ethnic cleansing and murder has been cowed or otherwise mollified.
I'm inclined to agree with you.
So why are SF pushing the issue.?
 

Drogheda445

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Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
6,529
I wouldn't see much point in holding it now, tbh, especially considering the instability at the moment and the state the southern economy is in at the moment.

But if that's what they want, fair enough. A proper referendum in partition has not been held since the early seventies, so it is long overdue.
 

Global Justice

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Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
13,520
The recent events will assure that moderate nationalists will be in favour of a UI. It's crystal clear that unionists still want the occupied 6 counties to be a cold house for CNR with their oppressive, sectarian and imperialist symbols and undemocratic demands and fetish for misrule
 

centauro

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
1,549
As long as Nationalists constitute a large, and especially a growing, part of the population, there won't just be one referendum, there will be many.

Quebec had an independence referendum in 1980 which was defeated 60 per cent against to 40 per cent for. 15 years later it failed by only 1.2 per cent. If there were a large English-speaking population, I'd bet that it probably would have won because Nationalists would have been able to rally more emotional arguments, but anti-English language laws passed caused a large proportion of English-speakers to clear out during the 1970s and 1980s so it had to be played more on economics than on defending French.

That's the sad fact of this - it will never end until one side wins conclusively. Unionists, despite enforcing the most bigoted government in Western Europe, failed to get rid of diminish the Nationalist proportion of the population enough from 1922 to 1972 to ensure their position in the UK was secure over the long-term.
Most bigoted in Wetern Europe? Like hello?
 
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