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Bouncers/door staff in Ireland


Libero

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May 22, 2004
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Reposted from a Developement & Editorial thread.

civic_critic said:
Ireland has always abused its people; the carry on of bouncers around Dublin is just the latest incarnation of this sickness in the heart of this nation. Irish bouncers are the most aggressive and most gratuitously powerplaying of any bouncers I have ever seen anywhere in Europe. They routinely assault people for no reason and use a 'headlock' to do so as a matter of course. This headlock involves cutting off people's oxygen and blood supply; it is a judo move and is, in my view, technically attempted murder. The Irish of course cluelessly and passively submit to this regime of overbearing bullying and grotesque exclusivity which is being played out on the doors of almost every pub in the city of Dublin. The Irish will even queue up for this treatment and submit to impertinent questioning by these slobbering thugs such as "where are you coming from", "where have you just been" and other impertinent nonsense. These arseholes think they're on patrol in the Ardoyne.

As regards getting the gardai to take you seriously in these situations, if it's after 6 o'clock in the evening in the city centre then the guards presume you are guilty until proved innocent (you're likely to 'have drink taken' you see). That's if you can get them to turn up at all, which is doubtful. All in all if you're 'on the outside' in any way or in any given situation in this society you are at a grave disadvantage. This society does not respect its people unless they conform to its remarkably narrow terms. I say this as someone who has lived in a few other countries and has something with which to compare.
General request to users: please do not identify individuals or individual establishments or security operators. Instead, please stick to general location and the type of establishment.

Much as we'd like to have fully open discussion, this is a site based in Ireland and responsible for all posts made. We cannot have ourselves open to defamation proceedings or malicious allegations from business rivals and enemies.
 

popper

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Oct 4, 2004
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The reason why I asked where they were from is that I recently witnessed similar attacks on customers by eastern European bouncers not too far from where the incident referred to took place. That is why I aksed as it is possible/likely that they are employed by the seame person. Of course I forgot that you cannot mention any misbehaviour by the "New Irish" :roll:
 

Sligoboy

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meriwether said:
civic_critic said:
Fair enough.

Ireland has always abused its people; the carry on of bouncers around Dublin is just the latest incarnation of this sickness in the heart of this nation. Irish bouncers are the most aggressive and most gratuitously powerplaying of any bouncers I have ever seen anywhere in Europe. They routinely assault people for no reason and use a 'headlock' to do so as a matter of course. This headlock involves cutting off people's oxygen and blood supply; it is a judo move and is, in my view, technically attempted murder. The Irish of course cluelessly and passively submit to this regime of overbearing bullying and grotesque exclusivity which is being played out on the doors of almost every pub in the city of Dublin. The Irish will even queue up for this treatment and submit to impertinent questioning by these slobbering thugs such as "where are you coming from", "where have you just been" and other impertinent nonsense. These arseholes think they're on patrol in the Ardoyne.

As regards getting the gardai to take you seriously in these situations, if it's after 6 o'clock in the evening in the city centre then the guards presume you are guilty until proved innocent (you're likely to 'have drink taken' you see). That's if you can get them to turn up at all, which is doubtful. All in all if you're 'on the outside' in any way or in any given situation in this society you are at a grave disadvantage. This society does not respect its people unless they conform to its remarkably narrow terms. I say this as someone who has lived in a few other countries and has something with which to compare.
Good post.
A little understood factor is that overall regarding the social disorder on the streets regarding pubs and clubs, bouncers play a significant role in making the situation worse.
Bouncers approach the job from a maximum aggression viewpoint, rather than the opposite.
Its because they are scared shitless. They usually subject smaller men to the interogations Civic is taking about. Its a mini power trip for them to distract them from their otherwise petty and insignificant lives.

I would not Q to get into a bar full stop. Those days are far behind me.
 

The Collective.

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Apr 21, 2007
Messages
159
Couldnt determin were they were from.. I'm waiting for later on in the afternoon to ring them up. I'll ask the name of thier security provider. Then ring them, ask them which clubs they service. Then ring every club they work for and tell them I'll lead a boycott against every club that uses them.
 

meriwether

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popper said:
The reason why I asked where they were from is that I recently witnessed similar attacks on customers by eastern European bouncers not too far from where the incident referred to took place. That is why I aksed as it is possible/likely that they are employed by the seame person. Of course I forgot that you cannot mention any misbehaviour by the "New Irish" :roll:
Many of them have military training, and are as aggressive as anything. Im much more wary of Eastern Europoean bouncers than youre bog standard Irish neanderthal bouncers.
 

easygoing

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meriwether said:
Many of them have military training, and are as aggressive as anything. Im much more wary of Eastern Europoean bouncers than youre bog standard Irish neanderthal bouncers.
That's a bit snooty, Meri.
 

meriwether

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easygoing said:
meriwether said:
Many of them have military training, and are as aggressive as anything. Im much more wary of Eastern Europoean bouncers than youre bog standard Irish neanderthal bouncers.
That's a bit snooty, Meri.
I thought I was being quite generous.
 

easygoing

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meriwether said:
easygoing said:
meriwether said:
Many of them have military training, and are as aggressive as anything. Im much more wary of Eastern Europoean bouncers than youre bog standard Irish neanderthal bouncers.
That's a bit snooty, Meri.
I thought I was being quite generous.
Some are aggressive and dumb - but then, so are people from all walks. Many are sound out.
 

meriwether

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easygoing said:
meriwether said:
easygoing said:
meriwether said:
Many of them have military training, and are as aggressive as anything. Im much more wary of Eastern Europoean bouncers than youre bog standard Irish neanderthal bouncers.
That's a bit snooty, Meri.
I thought I was being quite generous.
Some are aggressive and dumb - but then, so are people from all walks. Many are sound out.
Yeah, to specify- the bad Irish bouncers are the neanderthals, not all of them. Some are quite polite and helpful.
Im pretty confident however that a slightly higher percentage of bouncers are like this, as compared to general life.
 

Eirenua

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Jan 7, 2007
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Door security staff are now supposed to be registered after doing some kind of training course. What this course involves, I do not know as these guys are just as ignorant as they were 2,12,20 years ago, great while they are all together kicking the bejazus out some young lad who is p*****d and can't defend himself, but snivelling little sh1ts when you smack them when you meet them on their own(had the pleasure of doing this once after getting a hiding from bouncers). A young lad of 23, named Moynihan from Cork hit a bouncer and he was caught in a headlock (described at the top of this thread) the young lad was choked to death and to this day nobody has been prosecuted for causing his death. His family are still seeking justice for their sons death. In my opinion, bouncers are lowlives who do not deserve any respect.
 

discenter1888

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Great post. It is a matter of fact that Irish bouncers are some of the most badly mannered and violent security staff in Europe. It is only when you visit other European countries, you realise that there is a terrible attitude problem with the vast majority of them.
 

Libero

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discenter1888 said:
Great post. It is a matter of fact that Irish bouncers are some of the most badly mannered and violent security staff in Europe. It is only when you visit other European countries, you realise that there is a terrible attitude problem with the vast majority of them.
Agreed. It is quite striking how in so much of Europe the door staff operate just as much to welcome and reassure punters as to look after the security aspect. Of course, doing a good job on the welcome front helps put people at ease and in a good mood and does something to reduce the potential for hassle. If you treat people badly, there's more chance they'll behave badly.

I think there's a real mix of social factors in play: our attitudes to drink, the power of publicans/night club owners and lack of competition, the closeness of the relationship between Gardai and those licencees, the role of ex-paramilitaries, costs involved in our legal system. The list goes on.

In the short term, it will be interesting to see what impact comes from the establishment of the PSA (http://www.psa.gov.ie/psa/psa.nsf/agentvw?Openform&vw=psaFAQs)
It's a step in the right direction but only the courts can pass judgment on violent behaviour in a way that stops a person working in the area of private security.
 
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Libero said:
Agreed. It is quite striking how in so much of Europe the door staff operate just as much to welcome and reassure punters as to look after the security aspect. Of course, doing a good job on the welcome front helps put people at ease and in a good mood and does something to reduce the potential for hassle. If you treat people badly, there's more chance they'll behave badly.

I think there's a real mix of social factors in play: our attitudes to drink, the power of publicans/night club owners and lack of competition, the closeness of the relationship between Gardai and those licencees, the role of ex-paramilitaries, costs involved in our legal system. The list goes on.
If you've been living on the continent a while it's always a shock when back in Ireland to see security guards outside practically all shops in broad daylight and doormen outside of pubs as soon as the light begins to fade.
 

Ciaran

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Apr 20, 2005
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I work as a bouncer the odd time and i have to say in my experience the vast majority of them that i have worked with are not violent and only respond to the violence used against them, i for one have never hit anyone despite extreme provocation at times and we have very strict guidelines as the the amount of force we are allowed to use when removing someone from the premises. That said i have worked with one or two bastards but they generally are let go when this becomes clear.
 

Ireland2007

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meriwether said:
popper said:
The reason why I asked where they were from is that I recently witnessed similar attacks on customers by eastern European bouncers not too far from where the incident referred to took place. That is why I aksed as it is possible/likely that they are employed by the seame person. Of course I forgot that you cannot mention any misbehaviour by the "New Irish" :roll:
Many of them have military training, and are as aggressive as anything. Im much more wary of Eastern Europoean bouncers than youre bog standard Irish neanderthal bouncers.
I'd be the same.

One seven odd foot bouncer in Belfast from Poland or somewhere actually came out on to the street after telling me to leave to shout "Comon then" (or something like that) because I refused to move away from the pavement opposite the bar. He was like the big Russian in Rocky IV. :lol:

As for Irish bouncers though... there's a few Irish ones that bounce in Cookstown who I wouldn't like to brush into never might smartmouth. Seen two of them kick the tripe out of some lad who was absolutly legless outside a club one night.

All that said I wouldn't go as far as to say "In my opinion, bouncers are lowlives who do not deserve any respect"... I know plenty who have to listen to and deal with a load of shite and don't over-react to it.
 

civic_critic

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It's not just violence. It's stepping in front of people when they are attempting to enter the premises for no other reason than to demand a moment of explicit submission as the emotional tribute that must be paid upon entry. It's the impertinent questions, the insistence on forming a queue when no such thing is required, the constant patrolling of the premises with eyes weebling around suspiciously and paramilitary earpiece at the ready, the ostentatious standing on all the stairways available surveying all before them ever ready to pounce at the slightest alleged 'misdemeanour'. The whole thing is ridiculous, patronising and infantilisng - a microcosm of the overbearing and punitive instincts of this society in general.

Perhaps the Irish deserve to be treated this way, who knows. What do people think? What is clear is that this is not the way one is treated in any other country outside of here.
 

Libero

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civic_critic said:
It's not just violence. It's stepping in front of people when they are attempting to enter the premises for no other reason than to demand a moment of explicit submission as the emotional tribute that must be paid upon entry. It's the impertinent questions, the insistence on forming a queue when no such thing is required, the constant patrolling of the premises with eyes weebling around suspiciously and paramilitary earpiece at the ready, the ostentatious standing on all the stairways available surveying all before them ever ready to pounce at the slightest alleged 'misdemeanour'. The whole thing is ridiculous, patronising and infantilisng - a microcosm of the overbearing and punitive instincts of this society in general.

Perhaps the Irish deserve to be treated this way, who knows. What do people think? What is clear is that this is not the way one is treated in any other country outside of here.
I sometimes find civic_critic grating, but that's fairly perceptive and articulate.

As for other countries, I went on the razz in Mongolia a couple of times. This is the country where they still have Chinggis Khaan as their number one national hero, so you wouldn't expect soft friendly bouncers, even if you're a westerner and they expect you have cash to spend.

Still, Irish door staff could learn a thing or two from the Mongolians. Sure, the Mongolians were big but also polite and respectful and they managed to keep the peace without prowling around as if sudden and terrible violence would have to be unleashed at any moment.

In one particular establishment, the security wore urban camouflage and looked particularly nasty. But when one or two native ordinary-looking punters would get over-exuberant (spilling drinks, standing on chairs), the security staff just tapped on their shoulders and asked them politely and with a smile to stop it. And they did.

The Russians are pretty bad though. Feys kontrol at some Moscow clubs is positively fascist and they revel in random acts of toughness and attitude. But then everyone knows that Moscow is messed-up and has serious problems with violence and social attitudes. It seems that Dublin does also. The English aren't much better either when it comes to bouncer culture.
 

Lichfield

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Apr 13, 2007
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If you have been physically abused by bouncers in Nightclub report it to the Gardai the next day ( not that night when you're upset and/or full of pints). Go back to the club and request a copy of the CCTV and hand in a written compliant.

All premises who have late licences are required to have modern operational CCTV systems in place as a condition of their Annual Dance Licnece. If you get no satisfaction from the your Garda compliant report the matter to the Garda Ombudsman. If the CCTV footage is refused by the club attend the annunal liceensing court and object to the renwal. Annual licening court are held every September.
 
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