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Mercurial

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He didn't apply in terms of the conditions for applying.

Or, are there to be one set of rules for travellers, and another for everybody else?
The rules apparently being that if you're denied opportunities and you're a Traveller, people blame you, but if you're not, they have sympathy for you.
 

Uganda

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The rules apparently being that if you're denied opportunities and you're a Traveller, people blame you, but if you're not, they have sympathy for you.
Funny, I thought it was if you applied on time you got a place. If you didn't you didn't.


Didn't realise it was the role of school boards to discriminate in favour of travellers.
 

asset test

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He applied late.
Thanks for the clarification.

On the other hand, some people think they are just entitled, when everyone else observes the rules.

Sheesh.

But I am glad the lad is going to Secondary. There is a lot of vilification about Travellers not valuing education. Hope he stays the course, with parental support.

It's a long game.
 

Mercurial

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Funny, I thought it was if you applied on time you got a place. If you didn't you didn't.


Didn't realise it was the role of school boards to discriminate in favour of travellers.
Well, you're wrong on both counts then.
 

GrainneDee

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Didn't they claim not to know about the deadline?

You wouldn't be embellishing the facts because you're prejudiced against Travellers, would you?
They knew about the deadline. The families of the sixth class boys were reminded several times.

What does his being a traveller have to do with it, other than that it worked for them by crying discrimination.
 

Mercurial

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They knew about the deadline. The families of the sixth class boys were reminded several times.

What does his being a traveller have to do with it, other than that it worked for them by crying discrimination.
How were they reminded?

I'm suggesting that the fact that he's a traveller probably explains why you're misrepresenting the facts of the case.
 

GrainneDee

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How were they reminded?

I'm suggesting that the fact that he's a traveller probably explains why you're misrepresenting the facts of the case.
Presumably by letter. Which the boy and other family members could read. What facts were misrepresented?

I repeat, what does his being a traveller have to do with it? All parents were notified.
 

Mercurial

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Presumably by letter. Which the boy and other family members could read. What facts were misrepresented?

I repeat, what does his being a traveller have to do with it? All parents were notified.
Presumably? I see no mention of any letters in any of the news stories. Maybe you can point me to one.

I also note your implicit acknowledgement that the boys parents cannot read. Do you think a letter is an appropriate way to ensure that illiterate people have been informed of such an important matter?

And I will repeat, I think your prejudice against travellers is leading you to misrepresent the facts of the case.
 

talkingshop

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Presumably? I see no mention of any letters in any of the news stories. Maybe you can point me to one.

I also note your implicit acknowledgement that the boys parents cannot read. Do you think a letter is an appropriate way to ensure that illiterate people have been informed of such an important matter?

And I will repeat, I think your prejudice against travellers is leading you to misrepresent the facts of the case.
What did she say that was untrue/incorrect?
 

GrainneDee

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FGS in one way the mantra is that Travellers do not value education.

Then when they do, it's something else.

I know he probably jumped the fekkin queue, but he is probably one of the very few 13 yr old Travellers to attend Secondary School in fairness.

Still, their sense of entitlement would really annoy you sometimes.

But hopefully, in future the rules will be observed.

It's not an ideal situation. Kid wants to go to Secondary. Parents don't fill out the forms. Kid (Traveller) doesn't get a place. Traveller card invoked.

I get it.

I wonder how other parents in the locality feel if their own child didn't get in. But we don't know about that. At least I don't know if a local non Traveller child has been stopped from attending the school. Numbers/application wise.
There are travellers who value education and those who don't. There are non-travellers who value education and non-travellers who don't. The rules are the same for everyone, traveller and non-traveller. Why should a traveller get special favour over non-travellers just because the percentage of travellers who don't value education is higher?

You can be sure that there were plenty other locals whose sons didn't get in, but they just did what people do, and accepted it, and found other options. That's why we don't know about it...
 

GrainneDee

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Presumably? I see no mention of any letters in any of the news stories. Maybe you can point me to one.

I also note your implicit acknowledgement that the boys parents cannot read. Do you think a letter is an appropriate way to ensure that illiterate people have been informed of such an important matter?

And I will repeat, I think your prejudice against travellers is leading you to misrepresent the facts of the case.
Letter is the normal way of communicating with parents. Schools don't have the time or resources to ring every parent. The parents may be illiterate, but the boy can read and other family members can read. How do you think the family access government and other bureaucratic services?

You can repeat all you wish this idea of my prejudice against travellers, but it's rather pointless since you're just hot air.
 

Mercurial

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What did she say that was untrue/incorrect?
She said that the boy's parents knew about the deadline. The parents say that they didn't, so unless Grainne has more information than I've seen in any of the news stories, she's misrepresenting the facts.
 

Mercurial

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Letter is the normal way of communicating with parents.
Right - so you don't actually know whether a letter was sent.

You also said that the families were reminded "several times". What's your evidence for this?

Schools don't have the time or resources to ring every parent.
What absolute nonsense. If they have the time and resources to send a letter, they have the time and resources to make a phonecall, especially given such an important matter as this.

The parents may be illiterate, but the boy can read and other family members can read. How do you think the family access government and other bureaucratic services?
I don't know - but unlike you, I don't presume to know.

You are now suggesting that it's sufficient to give a letter (which may or may not exist) to the child, and trust that he will pass it on to his parents or some other relative? Do you think it's appropriate for school authorities to place that much responsibility on the shoulders of a child?

You can repeat all you wish this idea of my prejudice against travellers, but it's rather pointless since you're just hot air.
There is ample evidence of your prejudices on other threads, but I think the best evidence here is the fact that you are seriously trying to suggest that the school didn't have the resources to ring the parents of each child.

If you're willing to go to those lengths to defend your view, it can only be to sustain your prejudices.
 

asset test

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Mercurial the Troll of the Century.

I have never put anyone on ignore, but really want to with this one.

Anyway, I will resist temptation and read the bullsit, ad nauseum again and again, around the houses, and whatever.
 

Mercurial

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Mercurial the Troll of the Century.

I have never put anyone on ignore, but really want to with this one.

Anyway, I will resist temptation and read the bullsit, ad nauseum again and again, around the houses, and whatever.
Apparently defending the right of a child to receive an education makes one "the troll of the century" now.
 

autiemom

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How were they reminded?

I'm suggesting that the fact that he's a traveller probably explains why you're misrepresenting the facts of the case.
having a child in 6th class you are reminded constantly by the school regarding applications for secondary level school, this we didn't know bullspit annoys the hell out of me, having had little or no choice where to send my own daughter, I spent two years before she was due to attend secondary searching for a place for her. Its discrimination all right, just not against travellers.
 

Herr Rommel

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Didn't they claim not to know about the deadline?

You wouldn't be embellishing the facts because you're prejudiced against Travellers, would you?
Bullcrap they are playing the lazy knack card again.
 

StarryPlough01

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having a child in 6th class you are reminded constantly by the school regarding applications for secondary level school, this we didn't know bullspit annoys the hell out of me, having had little or no choice where to send my own daughter, I spent two years before she was due to attend secondary searching for a place for her. Its discrimination all right, just not against travellers.
Perhaps, at your child's school. This was a grief stricken family, too.

I don't think you should entrust such an important letter with a child. Any permission slips for parents to sign etc that I was ever handed would be found crumpled up under all the crumbs and junk at the bottom of my school bag, and completely forgotten about.

OP, Thank you for highlighting this case. Perhaps, enrolment should be automatically carried over from primary to secondary school for each child. It would be then up to admin to confirm placements with each family, especially for a disadvantaged area. David, also, wouldn't the primary school know the student's family's situation (pastoral care), and be able to assist them in the transition to upper school. It's appalling.

Possibly, I'll hear objections to overload on teaching staff, but Ireland is not a third world country.

This inflexibility by bureaucrats will only compound the boy's grief at losing his sister. I feel compassionate grounds is warranted in this situation. I don't foresee a problem with legal action by other parents (another poster mentioned the likelihood of this) that would be successful.

Boy (13) has no school to attend as he missed application deadline due to his sister passing away from cancer - Independent.ie

“He lost his sister, he lost his friends and he’s totally on his own. He’s lost and all of his friends are at school,” Ann Marie told Independent.ie.

….

Lee’s enrolment form was two weeks late as his sister passed away around the deadline. He’s currently on a waiting list to get into the school but Anne Marie fears he’s already falling behind.
The Parents and Children's committees in the area should lobby/contact their TDs as well as the Minister for Education. It sounds as though this situation has been a hidden one/unpublicised until now. These children are being denied equitable access to education.

I feel that the Education Department could buy a demountable classroom(s) and get in another teacher (e.g., unemployed teacher who hasn't been able to pick up a job, maybe a recent graduate) to help. If numbers drop, the demountable classroom would be well utilised in other ways (e.g., for drama groups; or perhaps when the school library is booked out, it can be an alternative place where students exchange ideas without disturbing others…).

Also, there should have been forward planning for such an 'overcrowded' situation.

I hope all of this gets resolved quickly for the boy's well being. He's been traumatised enough already.
 

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