Breaking News-Bloomberg:Ireland in talks with EU AND IMF in funds for Banks AND State

Cassandra Syndrome

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Our government look like buffoons constantly denying these stories.

Ireland is in talks with European and International Monetary Fund officials about a bailout that would shore up the state’s finances as well as enable it to inject capital into the country’s banks, said a European official with direct knowledge of the talks.

The two-part funding package would mean Ireland wouldn’t have to tap the bond market for an extended period as it tries to cut the budget deficit, said the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity. It would also give the government capital to help banks if necessary. Ireland says it’s fully funded into mid-2011.

Negotiations are continuing and no decision has been reached, the person said. European finance ministers are meeting in Brussels today at 5 p.m.

Irish officials have held talks with the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF in the past days, the person said. Irish assessments of banking losses held up to scrutiny in those discussions, the person said. Still, markets haven’t been persuaded, the person said.

An Irish central bank spokesman declined to comment. An Irish finance ministry spokesman also declined to comment directly today and referred to a statement issued on Nov. 14.

The government said two days ago it was in discussions with international officials about “market conditions.” Prime Minister Brian Cowen said late yesterday that no formal application had been made for EU support.
Ireland Said to Be in Talks to Get Funds for Government, Banks - Bloomberg.com
 


eoghanacht

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Oh no there not!!*







*we'll its nearly panto season.
 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/16/ireland-bailout-debt-crisis

4.25pm: More from Elena , who is capturing the comments from "sombre-looking" finance ministers as they arrive for the meeting in Brussels.

German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told reporters that the EU "isn't about pushing countries to do things."

French economy minister Christine Lagarde reminded the media that Ireland hasn't asked for anything yet, and added that processes are in place to deal with these kind of situations.

The politicians are getting the Hollywood treatment, with a red carpet in place and more than 100 journalists gathered - wondering when Irish finance minister Brian Lenihan will arrive. Apparently, it is very cold in Brussels.

The Dutch finance minister Jan Kees de Jager has also been speaking - and indicated that his government are ready to help:

If Ireland asks for it (a bailout), we are prepared. But its' not for me to say what Ireland has to do. We are ready to facilitate, todether with the IMF, any demands.

4.13pm: Out in Brussels, Elena Moya reports that the eurozone finance minister's meeting has been slightly delayed. It was due to start at 4pm GMT, but the star of the show, the Irish finance minister, has not arrived - and was running at least 10 minutes late.

Portugal's finance minister just showed up - "easing through the crowd with his head down"

Ireland's debt crisis - live coverage | Business | guardian.co.uk
 

johnfás

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They're learning the hard lesson that when their is representatives from 27 countries plus the institutions at all these meetings, that they cannot pull the wool over the eyes of the media like they try down in Montrose.

That said, they are right to stall on a deal. This is a game of poker, forget arguments about being a good European. My Government should go to Europe to get the best deal for my country in order to stop a whole generation of my friends emigrating and to stop the crazy incidents of suicide and all sorts of things going on around here because of people's desperation. If we can get a better deal for our people by threatening to stall for a week or so then we should do it.
 

MuchToDo

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johnfás, I don't agree about not being a good European.

While there would be serious repercussions to our losing some financial independance, the entire reason for partaking in the EU and Euro is that are fortunes are inextricably linked to those of Europe regardless (something the UK still doesn't get).

From that perspective, if we are going to precipitate a larger European collapse, it is certainly in our interest to avoid it, regardless of the consequences.

We just don't have the luxury anymore of preserving our financial independence, due to the past actions of Fianna Failure in ensuring we were the weak link in Europe.

It's wishful thinking that we would not be in a crisis if we had been more self-interested and less involved in the EU/Euro. In fact, it is Fianna Failure's self-interest and the short-term self-interest of many voters that have brought us to where we are.

Even the BBC don't get it. They try to explain where Ireland went wrong, blaming the cheap credit after joining the Euro without pointing out that Fianna Failure did everything in their power to *leverage* that (they could have as easily counteracted it, and should have for the sake of Ireland and Europe).
 

Odyessus

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johnfás, I don't agree about not being a good European.

While there would be serious repercussions to our losing some financial independance, the entire reason for partaking in the EU and Euro is that are fortunes are inextricably linked to those of Europe regardless (something the UK still doesn't get).

From that perspective, if we are going to precipitate a larger European collapse, it is certainly in our interest to avoid it, regardless of the consequences.

We just don't have the luxury anymore of preserving our financial independence, due to the past actions of Fianna Failure in ensuring we were the weak link in Europe.

It's wishful thinking that we would not be in a crisis if we had been more self-interested and less involved in the EU/Euro. In fact, it is Fianna Failure's self-interest and the short-term self-interest of many voters that have brought us to where we are.

Even the BBC don't get it. They try to explain where Ireland went wrong, blaming the cheap credit after joining the Euro without pointing out that Fianna Failure did everything in their power to *leverage* that (they could have as easily counteracted it, and should have for the sake of Ireland and Europe).

"Leverage" essentially means borrowing money. FF were not borrowing during the boom, in fact our debt plummeted, as the state coffers were overflowing with cash.
 

johnfás

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"Leverage" essentially means borrowing money. FF were not borrowing during the boom, in fact our debt plummeted, as the state coffers were overflowing with cash.
Correction. Our debt plummetted because our GDP (debt is measured as a ratio to GDP) exploded. As you are well aware, GDP is not an adequate measure of the Irish economy. The idea that Cowen "paid down" the national debt is a nonsense. It is the equivalent of saying your mortgage "decreases" as your salary increases. It doesn't. It simply constitutes a smaller percentage of your revenue.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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They're learning the hard lesson that when their is representatives from 27 countries plus the institutions at all these meetings, that they cannot pull the wool over the eyes of the media like they try down in Montrose.

That said, they are right to stall on a deal. This is a game of poker, forget arguments about being a good European. My Government should go to Europe to get the best deal for my country in order to stop a whole generation of my friends emigrating and to stop the crazy incidents of suicide and all sorts of things going on around here because of people's desperation. If we can get a better deal for our people by threatening to stall for a week or so then we should do it.
Your government should have done its job, and governed. It did not.
EPIC Fianna FAIL.
 

Odyessus

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Correction. Our debt plummetted because our GDP (debt is measured as a ratio to GDP) exploded. As you are well aware, GDP is not an adequate measure of the Irish economy. The idea that Cowen "paid down" the national debt is a nonsense. It is the equivalent of saying your mortgage "decreases" as your salary increases. It doesn't. It simply constitutes a smaller percentage of your revenue.

What do you mean "correction"? I am pointing out that the statement that FF increased borrowing during the boom, through leverage, or any other way is factually wrong.

Please identify the statement I made which is incorrect. :confused:

P.S. As you no doubt know, reducing one's debt as a percentage of income is not leverage, or any other kind of borrowing.
 

captainwillard

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People borrowed and now want a blamehound. Where would the people be without a blamehound. Well, they would have to look closer to home and that would be very painful. Better to blame government.
 

4horsemen

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Correction. Our debt plummetted because our GDP (debt is measured as a ratio to GDP) exploded. As you are well aware, GDP is not an adequate measure of the Irish economy. The idea that Cowen "paid down" the national debt is a nonsense. It is the equivalent of saying your mortgage "decreases" as your salary increases. It doesn't. It simply constitutes a smaller percentage of your revenue.
Essentially Bertie Ahern, Charlie McCreevey and Brian Cowen oversaw and directed the destruction of this State. They enabled, through providing poor regulation, the growth of massive lending to the citizens of State so as to give hyperinflated property values. Of course, they sliced VAT and stamp duty and used it to reduce the direct State borrowings. But this has been replaced by massive borrowings from Europe, directed via the banks, to the citizens of the State. So we as a country now owe far more than we did when bertie and his mates took us on the path to where we now stand.
The destruction of our economy and our impending loss of sovereignty is the responsibility of FF and our opportunity to remove them has been prevented by the mealy mouthed quislings in the GP.
 

MuchToDo

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"Leverage" essentially means borrowing money. FF were not borrowing during the boom, in fact our debt plummeted, as the state coffers were overflowing with cash.
I mean leveraging the situation of cheap credit rather than the credit itself. Tax schemes and lack of regulation were arranged in order to make FOFF money and keep many punters happy in a deliberate pyramid scheme (not an incidental one arising from the cheap credit, but one deliberately fostered by FF).
 

chriskavo

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Your government should have done its job, and governed. It did not.
EPIC Fianna FAIL.
As a life long Fianna Fail man , I couldn't agree more. I will never ever vote for those criminals again.
 

johnfás

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Your government should have done its job, and governed. It did not.
EPIC Fianna FAIL.
I have never and would never vote Fianna Fáil. However, I'd appreciate it at this late hour if they did the state at least some small service by ensuring we get a decent deal having already destroyed the bloody country. If that means playing a game of poker at EuroFin, so be it.
 

johnfás

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What do you mean "correction"? I am pointing out that the statement that FF increased borrowing during the boom, through leverage, or any other way is factually wrong.

Please identify the statement I made which is incorrect. :confused:

P.S. As you no doubt know, reducing one's debt as a percentage of income is not leverage, or any other kind of borrowing.
I was rushing through and misread your post - apologies.
 

Partizan

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Welcome to you new feudal masters ye peasants. Now bow down and plead for mercy while we reduce you to debt poverty and sell off your children.
 

Mitsui2

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Welcome to you new feudal masters ye peasants. Now bow down and plead for mercy while we reduce you to debt poverty and sell off your children.
Sorry - nothing new about that. FF have done it already.
 


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