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Brexit EU negotiations & Ireland / Irish Economy going forward ..

robut

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Now that BREXIT looks like it is to take place I thought it of benefit to create this new thread about IRELAND and what we should selfishly be looking for and doing as we beat our way through this new challenge facing us. A thread for Brexit negotiations & Ireland if you will

What prompted me to add this thread is this Irish Times article ( 12/7/2016 ) AFTER Enda met Angela Merkel:

Angela Merkel is non-committal on State’s Brexit concerns

German chancellor Angela Merkel was non-committal over the State’s Brexit concerns following talks with Taoiseach Enda Kenny in Berlin, saying that Dublin’s voice will be heard “as much as anyone else’s” in the upcoming talks between the EU and London.
Dr Merkel said that concerns over preserving the common travel area between the UK and the Republic - in place since the 1920s - were “clearly profound”.

However, when asked about whether the State’s special circumstances would carry extra weight in Brexit negotiations, Dr Merkel said she “couldn’t pre-empt the result of the talks”.

“Ireland’s voice will be heard as much as anyone else’s,” Ms Merkel said. “The details will have to be clarified.”
So .. Maybe Im jumping the gun? Merkel probably being shtum at the moment before any discussion with UK?

- Will this non-committal thing be par for the course for us?
- Can we actually expect any special treatment from other EU/EZ members regardless?
- If this non committal thing persists will we really have to consider an #IREXIT?
- Will we be forced out .. nicely :D ???
- Are we getting a little glimpse that in the grand scheme of things we dont matter and can also go or stay, whatever?

What do you guys read into this?

AND BY THE WAY .. Im not using this thread to muster up an EU #IREXIT, personally I dont think that would be a great idea. Im just wondering will events force our hand ..
 
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YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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7,225
Now that BREXIT looks like it is to take place I thought it of benefit to create this new thread about IRELAND and what we should selfishly be looking for and doing as we beat our way through this new challenge facing us. A thread for Brexit negotiations & Ireland if you will

What prompted me to add this thread is this Irish Times article ( 12/7/2016 ) AFTER Enda met Angela Merkel:

Angela Merkel is non-committal on State’s Brexit concerns





So .. Maybe Im jumping the gun? Merkel probably being shtum at the moment before any discussion with UK?

- Will this non-committal thing be par for the course for us?
- Can we actually expect any special treatment from other EU/EZ members regardless?
- If this non committal thing persists will we really have to consider an #IREXIT?
- Will we be forced out .. nicely :D ???
- Are we getting a little glimpse that in the grand scheme of things we dont matter and can also go or stay, whatever?

What do you guys read into this?
so we guys think wait and see what this May has in mind. once she pulls Article 50 the negotiations can begin. don't you think this really is a British job here? if they want to shoot themselves in the foot well let them have a go at it first. nobody wants to be on the hook for what this move might bring to the little Englanders and their subjects...
 

cut the begs

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you will want out when your over run with migrants who will head to the south when the uk pulls the drawbridge up.
 

Watcher2

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We mean nothing in Europe. We didn't get any special gifts during the financial crisis. Why do you think we will get any preferences now? As for our exit from the EU, that's a joke, we could not survive. Britain has the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world apparently, and they have huge indigenous industry. We don't. Like it or not, we must stay in the EU.
 

Dame_Enda

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She is treating us with the same lack of respect she treated Cameron with when he went to her looking for concessions on free movement. As the doormats of Europe no doubt our politicians and possibly voters will just suck it up. Two thirds of Germans dont want her to run at the next election. The latest poll 27 June has AFD on 14%.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
“Ireland’s voice will be heard as much as anyone else’s,” Ms Merkel said.

That is pretty much the political equivalent of 'meh'.
 

purpledon

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We mean nothing in Europe. We didn't get any special gifts during the financial crisis. Why do you think we will get any preferences now? As for our exit from the EU, that's a joke, we could not survive. Britain has the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world apparently, and they have huge indigenous industry. We don't. Like it or not, we must stay in the EU.
Oh I don't know, Iceland is doing well despite its monumental crash.
 

purpledon

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We mean nothing in Europe. We didn't get any special gifts during the financial crisis. Why do you think we will get any preferences now? As for our exit from the EU, that's a joke, we could not survive. Britain has the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world apparently, and they have huge indigenous industry. We don't. Like it or not, we must stay in the EU.
Why would we, when you look at the ************************************************ who negotiated then, and the clown that is Noonan that followed. We neither threatened to leave the Euro or the EU. If we had, we may have been in a far better place now and let the whole rotten house of cards collapse, including the Euro and sterling.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Is there any legal impediment to Ireland and the UK simply continuing the common travel area agreement which predates the EU and which is currently in force?
 

Spanner Island

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Ireland is the achilles heel in all of this for both the EU and the UK... and the next few years are going to be a massive pain in the arse, especially for Ireland.

And of course as is typical with everything EU... the mixed messages will be emanating from all over the place.

The Germans have already started with their mixed messages... blowing hot and cold and no doubt that will continue... because that's what happens as we've seen regularly during our own referendums over the years when the 'wrong' answer was given - there's never a coherent EU message in response... which I believe is intentional...

With regard to Brexit, Ireland should be involved at every stage and at every level in the negotiations because we are going to be affected by the outcome more than anyone else with NI making things potentially very messy.

Whether or not our imbeciles will be able to convince Europe of this is doubtful... and I suspect we will be sidelined and mostly ignored... which if this does turn out to be the case should see us potentially threaten an Irexit vote of our own (and mean it)...

Ireland is in the worst possible position imo as we need a 'solution' that basically capitulates to Britain and which suits the EU... and it's not going to happen.

I suspect things will become more acrimonious as time goes by and that it will end up being a difficult and vindictive divorce by the end.
 
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purpledon

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She is treating us with the same lack of respect she treated Cameron with when he went to her looking for concessions on free movement. As the doormats of Europe no doubt our politicians and possibly voters will just suck it up. Two thirds of Germans dont want her to run at the next election. The latest poll 27 June has AFD on 14%.
I think ending the CTA would be good for Ireland and force a rethink on why this state has consistently refused to or is unable to provide full employment for its people. In the 50s only men counted and yet Dev still couldn't do it.

The establishment of FF/FG/Lab and the CC has stifled freedom of though and demands conformity thereby damaging people psychologically.

We need to seriously start pursuing a path to indigenous industry as the main driver of our economy. Other small nations do it, why can't we?
 

Dame_Enda

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I think ending the CTA would be good for Ireland and force a rethink on why this state has consistently refused to or is unable to provide full employment for its people. In the 50s only men counted and yet Dev still couldn't do it.

The establishment of FF/FG/Lab and the CC has stifled freedom of though and demands conformity thereby damaging people psychologically.

We need to seriously start pursuing a path to indigenous industry as the main driver of our economy. Other small nations do it, why can't we?
Mixed feelings on the CTA. Im okay with ID checks but I think Irish citizens should steal be allowed travel and reside in the UK subject to that. I think the UK should agree to impose exit controls to stop the illegals getting into the ROI from their territory and vice versa.
 

wombat

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Merkel's approach seems to be to keep her knickers untwisted until she sees what the Brits want. If they go with the Norway approach including free movement, there is no problem, if they need to restrict movement, it gets very messy.
 

purpledon

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you will want out when your over run with migrants who will head to the south when the uk pulls the drawbridge up.
Mass immigration into Ireland is a real possibility and no-one is allowed to discuss it. Yet to be mentioned on Irish TV or radio or the newspapers.

When will they notice that there are an extra 500,000 a year coming into the country. A country with no jobs.

Christ what we need right now is a right baststeward like Haughey.
 

purpledon

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Merkel's approach seems to be to keep her knickers untwisted until she sees what the Brits want. If they go with the Norway approach including free movement, there is no problem, if they need to restrict movement, it gets very messy.
Britain aren't the only ones who want to restrict migration. The EU has to learn that some countries are more popular over others and that is something that little countries like Ireland can't cope with.

Also, it's very damaging to the country that loses 20-30% plus of it's 20 somethings.

Each country should look after its own immigration needs.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Why is the CTA so important?
Wouldn't want Irish public figures and developers to be hindered from spending two years being bankrupt in the UK before business as usual back in Ireland. Or inconvenience the girlfriends of Taoisigh from flying in and out of Manchester with bags of money and so on.

On a more mundane level having to show a passport wouldn't inconvenience anyone very much as those evading identity checks tend to cross the border with NI anyway.
 

Spanner Island

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“Ireland’s voice will be heard as much as anyone else’s,” Ms Merkel said.

That is pretty much the political equivalent of 'meh'.
Yeah... like Latvia or Lithuania etc. will be affected as much as we will be...

We should be heard more than anyone... a LOT MORE... given the crappy position we've been put in by this Brexit bullsh!t.
 

purpledon

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Mixed feelings on the CTA. Im okay with ID checks but I think Irish citizens should steal be allowed travel and reside in the UK subject to that. I think the UK should agree to impose exit controls to stop the illegals getting into the ROI from their territory and vice versa.
The CTA is a get out clause for Ireland for 100 years. It has damaged Ireland badly. Losing our 20 somethings in their 100s of thousands has been bad for Ireland. No generation escapes this mass emigration to the UK. It has to stop as a economic policy for successive FF/FF/Lab governments and getting rid of the CTA would be a good start.

Wouldn't join Schengen either.
 

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