Brexit - Ireland should be turning the screw on the British

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The British, post-Brexit referendum, are desperately going to need a friendly voice on the EU side during Brexit negotiations. There are, because of geography and the border, many areas in which Ireland is going to suffer adverse effects if the British are made to pay harshly for leaving the EU. Whether we like it or not, the fortunes of the Irish economy are inextricably interlinked with that of the British, and Ireland is not going to wish to self-sabotage to satisfy the political need of the EU to 'punish' the UK, or of Juncker to act the hard man.

The position the British are in is, of course, their own doing - and they have placed Ireland in an invidious position without a second thought. That is where Ireland has a great opportunity. Ireland might now prove vital to the UK as negotiations take place. If the EU desire to make an example of the UK also entails punishing Ireland as collateral damage, then the Irish government will need to defend itself. The UK thus might now be beholden to Ireland in a way it has never been before.

Whether the current administration in Dublin has the wit or will to take advantage of this situation is another matter. But surely this is a wonderful opportunity to get a write-off of part or all of the British loan of five years ago? Or to ensure that post-Brexit trading terms are massively favourable to the Republic?

If de Valera, for all his faults, were in power right now, I suspect he would turn the screw on the British to Ireland's maximum advantage. I fear I cannot say the same about the current incumbent (or most of his more recent predecessors).
 


ger12

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The EU is far more likely to be kind to us rather than "punishing Ireland as collateral damage".

The Brits have shot themselves in the head, our job is not clean up their mess but to move forward with our European colleagues whose support I reckon will be forthcoming. Solidarity is a founding principle of the EU and we cannot be victims of England's lack of solidarity.
 

Kevin Parlon

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The British, post-Brexit referendum, are desperately going to need a friendly voice on the EU side during Brexit negotiations. There are, because of geography and the border, many areas in which Ireland is going to suffer adverse effects if the British are made to pay harshly for leaving the EU. Whether we like it or not, the fortunes of the Irish economy are inextricably interlinked with that of the British, and Ireland is not going to wish to self-sabotage to satisfy the political need of the EU to 'punish' the UK, or of Juncker to act the hard man.

The position the British are in is, of course, their own doing - and they have placed Ireland in an invidious position without a second thought. That is where Ireland has a great opportunity. Ireland might now prove vital to the UK as negotiations take place. If the EU desire to make an example of the UK also entails punishing Ireland as collateral damage, then the Irish government will need to defend itself. The UK thus might now be beholden to Ireland in a way it has never been before.

Whether the current administration in Dublin has the wit or will to take advantage of this situation is another matter. But surely this is a wonderful opportunity to get a write-off of part or all of the British loan of five years ago? Or to ensure that post-Brexit trading terms are massively favourable to the Republic?

If de Valera, for all his faults, were in power right now, I suspect he would turn the screw on the British to Ireland's maximum advantage. I fear I cannot say the same about the current incumbent (or most of his more recent predecessors).
I agree that we must find opportunity in this crisis. However, I can't recall a single instance where Ireland has done anything except wag its tail in Brussels. Have I been paying insufficient attention? Hopefully. I have come to believe this image says more about how Ireland is viewed in the EU than most people will admit to themselves.



He's not even looking at Kenny when patting him on the head.
 

Truth.ie

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The building is on fire and the Brits have made it to the fire exit.
Ireland is still inside eating Vol au vents, waiting for the fire brigade to turn up.
 

derryman

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The British, post-Brexit referendum, are desperately going to need a friendly voice on the EU side during Brexit negotiations. There are, because of geography and the border, many areas in which Ireland is going to suffer adverse effects if the British are made to pay harshly for leaving the EU. Whether we like it or not, the fortunes of the Irish economy are inextricably interlinked with that of the British, and Ireland is not going to wish to self-sabotage to satisfy the political need of the EU to 'punish' the UK, or of Juncker to act the hard man.

The position the British are in is, of course, their own doing - and they have placed Ireland in an invidious position without a second thought. That is where Ireland has a great opportunity. Ireland might now prove vital to the UK as negotiations take place. If the EU desire to make an example of the UK also entails punishing Ireland as collateral damage, then the Irish government will need to defend itself. The UK thus might now be beholden to Ireland in a way it has never been before.

Whether the current administration in Dublin has the wit or will to take advantage of this situation is another matter. But surely this is a wonderful opportunity to get a write-off of part or all of the British loan of five years ago? Or to ensure that post-Brexit trading terms are massively favourable to the Republic?

If de Valera, for all his faults, were in power right now, I suspect he would turn the screw on the British to Ireland's maximum advantage. I fear I cannot say the same about the current incumbent (or most of his more recent predecessors).
I think you are optimistic if you are looking to Dublin for wit and or wisdom.

But I do agree that there is opportunity for Dublin, but none for the six counties.
 
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The EU is far more likely to be kind to us rather than "punishing Ireland as collateral damage".
Are you kidding? Their over-riding concern, for the sake of the EU, is to economically punish the British for their decision (and understandably so) - the position that leaves Ireland in economically is not good.

The Brits have shot themselves in the head, our job is not clean up their mess but to move forward with our European colleagues whose support I reckon with forthcoming.
It's not about cleaning up their mess - it's about preventing one splattering Ireland as well as about screwing the British to maximum advantage. Ireland is in a position it has never been in before in relation to the leverage it now has in negotiations with the British on any given topic. It should use that leverage.
 

ManUnited

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Are you kidding? Their over-riding concern, for the sake of the EU, is to economically punish the British for their decision (and understandably so) - the position that leaves Ireland in economically is not good.



It's not about cleaning up their mess - it's about preventing one splattering Ireland as well as about screwing the British to maximum advantage. Ireland is in a position it has never been in before in relation to the leverage it now has in negotiations with the British on any given topic. It should use that leverage.
Nonsense. The poms have done that to themselves. The EU don't need to play tit for tat schoolyard games.
 

Novos

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For us it's about the EU.
You have the German Banking crisis.
The Italian Banking crisis (400 billion unsecured loans apparently)
Unemployment of around 21 million.
Homeless 4 million, not counting the 1 million plus and still growing, refugees.
80 million living in poverty and growth rates that are not even as good as Northern Ireland's.
Then you have the UK, the 2nd largest economy in the EU leaving.

If I was the Irish Government I'd be funding huge office blocks that straddle the Border.
Get your fingers in all the pies.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Are you kidding? Their over-riding concern, for the sake of the EU, is to economically punish the British for their decision (and understandably so) - the position that leaves Ireland in economically is not good.
The EU has made no secret of its intention to punish (that is, to go beyond a straightforward technical divorce and to impose unnecessarily harsh conditions) the UK for leaving. From the noises being made, it is abundantly clear that being "nice" to Ireland is less important to them than their intention to encourager les autres.
 

Mad as Fish

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Are you kidding? Their over-riding concern, for the sake of the EU, is to economically punish the British for their decision (and understandably so) - the position that leaves Ireland in economically is not good.



It's not about cleaning up their mess - it's about preventing one splattering Ireland as well as about screwing the British to maximum advantage. Ireland is in a position it has never been in before in relation to the leverage it now has in negotiations with the British on any given topic. It should use that leverage.
Why should anyone be punished? The UK decided to leave, punishing them is the stuff of playgrounds.
 
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Nonsense. The poms have done that to themselves. The EU don't need to play tit for tat schoolyard games.
They've already made it explicit - the British must indeed be made an example of if they do not accept the Four Freedoms (and I perfectly understand why). I don't understand how you could possibly be under the impression that the EU thinks otherwise.

As to the British doing it to themselves - yes, of course, as said in the OP. Precisely why Ireland should be taking full advantage right now.
 
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Why should anyone be punished? The UK decided to leave, punishing them is the stuff of playgrounds.
For the very obvious and cogent reason that the other member states must be shown that leaving the EU is not in their interests. This has been made very plain time and time again by senior European politicians - it's not controversial at all to state that this is their position. They have said it plainly.
 
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The EU has made no secret of its intention to punish (that is, to go beyond a straightforward technical divorce and to impose unnecessarily harsh conditions) the UK for leaving. From the noises being made, it is abundantly clear that being "nice" to Ireland is less important to them than their intention to encourager les autres.
Correct.
 

Mad as Fish

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The EU has made no secret of its intention to punish (that is, to go beyond a straightforward technical divorce and to impose unnecessarily harsh conditions) the UK for leaving. From the noises being made, it is abundantly clear that being "nice" to Ireland is less important to them than their intention to encourager les autres.
Is the EU a democratic entity in form at all? Who decides whether anyone should be 'punished' and how is that decision arrived at?
 

tsarbomb

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When they Brits leave the informal alliance with other northern countries that was the blocking minority on the council will be dead. I think more of the countries (like the Netherlands) will despair at this and grow even more Euro sceptic.

I don't see what leverage we have with regard to the Brits. If anything, we'll probably have a tough time trying to remain in the EU over the next few years. If the pound remains this weak for long enough loads of people in Connacht and Ulster will want to leave the Euro as they can't compete with the prices up north.

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/tax-take-plummet-1-3-shoppers-break-border-368769
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Are you kidding? Their over-riding concern, for the sake of the EU, is to economically punish the British for their decision (and understandably so) - the position that leaves Ireland in economically is not good.

It's not about cleaning up their mess - it's about preventing one splattering Ireland as well as about screwing the British to maximum advantage.

Ireland is in a position it has never been in before in relation to the leverage it now has in negotiations with the British on any given topic.

It should use that leverage.
The Brexit situation is transitory, and the possibility of Scottish Independence means that existence of the UK might not be permanent.

But the island of Great Britain will always be the island of Ireland's nearest neighbour of any size, though we aren't theirs.


[video=youtube;_jtQ_U9p3wY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jtQ_U9p3wY[/video]
 

Mad as Fish

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For the very obvious and cogent reason that the other member states must be shown that leaving the EU is not in their interests. This has been made very plain time and time again by senior European politicians - it's not controversial at all to state that this is their position. They have said it plainly.
Exactly why the EU resembles a dictatorship than than a democratic institution. No doubt Juncker's is behind this and who the feck elected him?
 

ManUnited

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They've already made it explicit - the British must indeed be made an example of if they do not accept the Four Freedoms (and I perfectly understand why). I don't understand how you could possibly be under the impression that the EU thinks otherwise.

As to the British doing it to themselves - yes, of course, as said in the OP. Precisely why Ireland should be taking full advantage right now.
The problems of Brexit become clearer each passing week. Ireland, along with the rest of the EU can just stand back and watch.
 
O

Oscurito

I think there is more advantage to be had than worrying about that loan, the principle of which is less than 2% of our GDP - 6 months of growth?

If there is an exit of companies from the UK, we might as well get our slice of the pie. If we don't, others will. However, if the UK economy is hit hard, we will too. So we have to tread a fine line between looking after ourselves while defending the UK, where it suits our interests to do so.
 
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The problems of Brexit become clearer each passing week. Ireland, along with the rest of the EU can just stand back and watch.
No. It can't. If anything is certain, it is that Ireland, alone of the other member states, is placed in economic peril by the decision of the British to a degree not matched anywhere else to anywhere near the extent.
 


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