• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Brexit lights touchpaper for next political firestorm – Irish unity


AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
8,168
You are posting as if I am merely dealing with one issue - either financial cost or, as above, just violent backlash. I'm not, I'm talking about both and then some. And they need to be considered rather than blindly heading toward a UI. And financial and military/violent outcomes are only the tip of the iceberg. Swapping governance is not going to be easy. Brexit is a shining example of the clusterfvck that can emerge.
Im well aware that youre talking about both issues and Ive posted rebuttals to both so I have absolutely no idea why you would say the bit above in bold :unsure:

Also, I have no intention of blindly heading towards a UI and have clearly stated this (we need a plan and it cant be another Brexit type fukup) which you have ignored for some reason :rolleyes:


btw no one said it would be easy but it is going to happen and the loyalists' threat of violence should not and will not be allowed to derail democracy again .. nor should the, many say false perception, that we're all going to be worse off .. there are plenty of schools of thought out there that say we'll never be financially right (North or South) until unification..
 


AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
8,168
A united Ireland will be a fiscal catastrophe for Ireland,the truth of this is revealed by the lack of enthusiasm for the prospect shown by Ireland's senior politicians any time they are asked about it .

Unless ROI has the money saved up to replace the subvention to NI from the UK treasury it will have to borrow the money,the economist Paul Gosling who favours a united Ireland has explained away half of the subvention so that leaves 5 billion pounds a year ,over ten years,that's 50billion pounds added to Ireland's national debt,that's 58 billion euro that's not much to true believer but a scary number to sensible people

The UK could be out of Ireland within 3 months of a successful unity vote and never pay another penny,to think it's going to pay billions to foreign country for years to please Irish republicans is deluded blue skies thinking

I think the EU will definitely pay something to reunification but to get an idea of how much i would look at how big it's contribution was in peace funding after the GFA,hundreds of millions rather than billions,also reunification will be something Ireland has entered into of its own free will and the EU might not be to keen on breaking its own fiscal rules,ask Greece how generous the EU is

The input of the Clinton administration and Bill Clinton personally into the GFA ensured a fiscal contribution from America,the smooth transition to a united Ireland imagined by irish republicans would not require input from America so no dough from the doughboys,though Irish American politicians might squeeze one of two hundred million out of the American taxpayer

Because I can't see into the future i have to admit what I have written is guess work open to discussion and ridicule but Paul Gosling does think the subvention is 5 billion per annum,America and the EU did make fiscal contributions post GFA of hundreds of millions not billions so until an Irish republican can give me a better guess backed up by something more than wishful thinking i will continue to say my guess is more likely to be accurate than yours

Give me an example of the UK giving billions of pounds to any first world country

Your entire post is just your personal wish list but this comment is the nuttiest of all:-

"Give me an example of the UK giving billions of pounds to any first world country"

What other "first" world country/colony that has been rebelling for 800 years is the UK still occupying ? .... we are unique and thankfully the world can see just how England (cause thats what it really is) treats us ... with the history we have they can NOT just fuk off ... simply cant happen this day & age .. they have responsibilities and they will be held to them by the international community .. and as well as that they'll be only too bloody happen to pay a reducing subvention to "finally" get shot of the place .. a place they dont need anymore and most certainly dont want.

btw a £billion was raised for Notre Dame in a matter of hours but you think only hundreds of millions will be raised for Ireland ... come on now thats just crazy talk
 

Robo

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2008
Messages
1,069
post up the map that you think would show the cultural differences in Northern Ireland.
That map is flawed, its missing too much information and no I will not post a map. I am raising issue with a map that is missing 17% of the population of N Ireland.
 

AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
8,168
This isn't even close to my worst case scenario and is fairly realistic imho.

My worst case scenario is civil war in which the British side starts to lose badly,a wave of patriotism sweeps GB and 20,000 patriotic young men volunteer to come to the aid of their fellow Britons,the Irish side are now in retreat and ask for assistance from the new EU army,who sent air power which turns the tide for the Irish army.

The rising tide of casualties being reported on the BBC forces the British government to declare a no fly zone,the EU ignores this so the British supply anti aircraft ordinance ,in response the EU commit troops on the ground,seeking to undermine a major economic rival the USA back Britain when it commits ground troops

The EU bombs troop embarkation ports,the British nuke Paris, Berlin and Brussels and world war three begins

That's the actual worst case scenario,you have to use a bit of imagination.😃
there's a film in there somewhere :eek: ... and "finally" the Orangies will get on the big screen ;) lol
 

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
2,978
Podge & Rodge lookalike Bertie Ahern has said that UK politicians haven't a clue what the border is.

The former Taoiseach described Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg as a "strange fish" and a "lovely fella when he’s asleep. When he’s awake, he definitely is a strange fish I tell you, in and out of the water."

Mr Ahern, who attended several Brexit committees in Westminster, says several UK politicians don't understand what the North-South border is.

"And regards to the fact that lot of these guys went to Oxford, Cambridge and Eton, they’re not very bright."


 

death or glory

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
18,160
Podge & Rodge lookalike Bertie Ahern has said that UK politicians haven't a clue what the border is.

The former Taoiseach described Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg as a "strange fish" and a "lovely fella when he’s asleep. When he’s awake, he definitely is a strange fish I tell you, in and out of the water."

Mr Ahern, who attended several Brexit committees in Westminster, says several UK politicians don't understand what the North-South border is.

"And regards to the fact that lot of these guys went to Oxford, Cambridge and Eton, they’re not very bright."


Now Swords,
Did you close your other sock account or has it been banned?
 

all the best

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
744
Your entire post is just your personal wish list but this comment is the nuttiest of all:-

"Give me an example of the UK giving billions of pounds to any first world country"

What other "first" world country/colony that has been rebelling for 800 years is the UK still occupying ? .... we are unique and thankfully the world can see just how England (cause thats what it really is) treats us ... with the history we have they can NOT just fuk off ... simply cant happen this day & age .. they have responsibilities and they will be held to them by the international community .. and as well as that they'll be only too bloody happen to pay a reducing subvention to "finally" get shot of the place .. a place they dont need anymore and most certainly dont want.

btw a £billion was raised for Notre Dame in a matter of hours but you think only hundreds of millions will be raised for Ireland ... come on now thats just crazy talk
If Ireland votes to reunite,

Englands responsibility for Northern Ireland ends,

if you think reunification will effect your standard of living vote no,
 

McSlaggart

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
17,134
That map is flawed, its missing too much information and no I will not post a map. I am raising issue with a map that is missing 17% of the population of N Ireland.
The idea of a map is to not show everything in great detail as then it would be a picture.
 

raetsel

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
7,237
Would not joint sovereignty work better.
That ideally should be the next stage in a process ultimately aimed at achieving full Irish unity. I could see it being a potential solution offered by a future Labour government.
It seems pretty clear that Ian Paisley Snr's Damascene conversion to power-sharing with SF in 2006 was entirely due to the fact that Blair & Co made it clear that was Plan B if a deal was not reached with the Shinners.
 

death or glory

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
18,160
That ideally should be the next stage in a process ultimately aimed at achieving full Irish unity. I could see it being a potential solution offered by a future Labour government.
It seems pretty clear that Ian Paisley Snr's Damascene conversion to power-sharing with SF in 2006 was entirely due to the fact that Blair & Co made it clear that was Plan B if a deal was not reached with the Shinners.
How does that seem "pretty clear" when sensible people would say that is wishful thinking on your part.
Direct rule is going to be the next step.
 

raetsel

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
7,237
How does that seem "pretty clear" when sensible people would say that is wishful thinking on your part.
Because just a year beforehand he said this:
"It will be my business and the business of my colleagues to lay it on the line to both the secretary of state and the prime minister that there can be no place in any future government of Northern Ireland for IRA/Sinn Féin.
"As the representatives of the majority of the Ulster population, we will not be engaged in any negotiations with that aim. The aim of the Belfast agreement to put terrorists into government will not take place and if the government, allied with IRA/Sinn Féin and the Dublin government, press forward with such measures, then they will have to face the righteous indignation of the unionist population."
Paisley rejects power share with Sinn Féin
That was still his promise to his voters right up to the talks the following year when he did his U turn. What made him change his mind?
Direct rule is going to be the next step.
No sh!t, Sherlock?
 

death or glory

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
18,160
Because just a year beforehand he said this:
"It will be my business and the business of my colleagues to lay it on the line to both the secretary of state and the prime minister that there can be no place in any future government of Northern Ireland for IRA/Sinn Féin.
"As the representatives of the majority of the Ulster population, we will not be engaged in any negotiations with that aim. The aim of the Belfast agreement to put terrorists into government will not take place and if the government, allied with IRA/Sinn Féin and the Dublin government, press forward with such measures, then they will have to face the righteous indignation of the unionist population."
Paisley rejects power share with Sinn Féin
That was still his promise to his voters right up to the talks the following year when he did his U turn. What made him change his mind?

No sh!t, Sherlock?
Where does that make it pretty clear that the threat of joint sovereignty made him change his mind, Einstein.
Any sensible person knows that he was power hungry and always wanted to be another James Craig, and be Prime Minister of Northern Ireland.
What probably sealed the deal was the promise of becoming a Lord which he was never going to get otherwise.
So it seems "PRETTY CLEAR" to me that you were chatting absolute bollox.
 

raetsel

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
7,237
Where does that make it pretty clear that the threat of joint sovereignty made him change his mind, Einstein.
Any sensible person knows that he was power hungry and always wanted to be another James Craig, and be Prime Minister of Northern Ireland.
What probably sealed the deal was the promise of becoming a Lord which he was never going to get otherwise.
So it seems "PRETTY CLEAR" to me that you were chatting absolute bollox.
DOG this was discussed at length and was well known at the time. How did you miss all the media speculation about Plan B, which was rife at the time? Paisley's U turn was such a shock that it ultimately cost him the leadership of the Free Presbyterians, who even tried to kick him out of the manse on Cyprus Avenue as a result of the rift that followed.
With devolution now secure, the idea of an alternative seems a distant thought. However, it is well known that both governments were drawing up a Plan B if the Assembly was not restored.

The prime ministers’ joint statement on 6 April 2006 suggests that work on “British-Irish partnership arrangements” got under way in that month. Blair and Ahern promised “a step-change in advancing North/South co-operation and action for the benefit of all” within the Good Friday Agreement.

A work plan for the political process, published on 29 June, set 24 November 2006 as the deadline to restore devolution. If that failed, the alternative would be announced at a December 2006 summit.

The St Andrews Agreement set the devolution deadline back to 26 March 2007 but there is no doubt that it also raised the stakes.


“Failure to agree to establish the Executive will lead to immediate dissolution of the Assembly,” the agreement warned, “as will failure to agree at any stage, and the Governments will take forward new partnership arrangements on the basis previously announced.”
BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Could Plan B be spur to progress?
However, it's fairly clear that it revolves around giving powers to the seven new super councils and pursuing what's being called "joint management", a green-tinged form of direct rule.

Both Irish and British ministers have hinted at this in order to spur the DUP towards agreeing a deal.
Blair warns of 'last chance' for power-sharing
Blair warns of 'last chance' for power-sharing
Now stop being a silly-arse. :ROFLMAO:
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top