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Brexit lights touchpaper for next political firestorm – Irish unity


AhNowStop

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May 23, 2017
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8,168
If Ireland votes to reunite,

Englands responsibility for Northern Ireland ends,

if you think reunification will effect your standard of living vote no,
How wrong can you be :rolleyes: ... ffs even the GFA says that after a successful border poll anyone who wants to can still class themselves as British ... Englands responsibility most certainly does NOT end and its more than a little foolish to think that it does....
And as I keep saying but you keep ignoring, among other reasons, the onlooking from the international community will ensure the English accept and deploy their just responsibilities via a reducing subvention .. they will be extremely keen to do that anyway just to get rid of this albatross

wishful thinking by people who dont ever want a UI is just that .. i.e. "wishful thinking" ...
 


AhNowStop

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Where does that make it pretty clear that the threat of joint sovereignty made him change his mind, Einstein.
Any sensible person knows that he was power hungry and always wanted to be another James Craig, and be Prime Minister of Northern Ireland.
What probably sealed the deal was the promise of becoming a Lord which he was never going to get otherwise.
So it seems "PRETTY CLEAR" to me that you were chatting absolute bollox.

Jaysus dog seriously ? .... making a fool out of yourself again I see :rolleyes:
 

death or glory

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DOG this was discussed at length and was well known at the time. How did you miss all the media speculation about Plan B, which was rife at the time? Paisley's U turn was such a shock that it ultimately cost him the leadership of the Free Presbyterians, who even tried to kick him out of the manse on Cyprus Avenue as a result of the rift that followed.

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Could Plan B be spur to progress?

Blair warns of 'last chance' for power-sharing

Now stop being a silly-arse. :ROFLMAO:
Now Enigma,
its you who is being the arse.
What you have done is shown one hypothesis by journalists and political commentators, and took it is being fact.
I'm sure many different scenarios were being discussed but for one thing, if you knew anything about the DUP and Paisley at all is that he would never have give in to threats.
The only reason Paisley agreed was to become Northern Ireland prime Minister, that's all he wanted was power and that was what the DUP wanted.
The bribe was to get to him to become Lord Bannside.

All this talk of Joint Sovereignty is wishful thinking as it is unworkable when you get down to the constitutional detail.
As it even says on your links,it would have been a green tinged form of Direct Rule were the UK makes the decisions but would listen to Eire's arguements.
 

AhNowStop

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Now Enigma,
its you who is being the arse.
What you have done is shown one hypothesis by journalists and political commentators, and took it is being fact.
I'm sure many different scenarios were being discussed but for one thing, if you knew anything about the DUP and Paisley at all is that he would never have give in to threats.
The only reason Paisley agreed was to become Northern Ireland prime Minister, that's all he wanted was power and that was what the DUP wanted.
The bribe was to get to him to become Lord Bannside.

All this talk of Joint Sovereignty is wishful thinking as it is unworkable when you get down to the constitutional detail.
As it even says on your links,it would have been a green tinged form of Direct Rule were the UK makes the decisions but would listen to Eire's arguements.

It was well know at the time dopey .. you just spent too much time under the car to notice :rolleyes:

you really are the runt of the litter arent you :ROFLMAO:
 

raetsel

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Jun 5, 2017
Messages
7,237
Now Enigma,
its you who is being the arse.
What you have done is shown one hypothesis by journalists and political commentators, and took it is being fact.
I'm sure many different scenarios were being discussed but for one thing, if you knew anything about the DUP and Paisley at all is that he would never have give in to threats.
The only reason Paisley agreed was to become Northern Ireland prime Minister, that's all he wanted was power and that was what the DUP wanted.
The bribe was to get to him to become Lord Bannside.

All this talk of Joint Sovereignty is wishful thinking as it is unworkable when you get down to the constitutional detail.
As it even says on your links,it would have been a green tinged form of Direct Rule were the UK makes the decisions but would listen to Eire's arguements.
DOG, if you honestly believe that the Plan B scenario was just a hypothesis created by journalists then you have much to learn about the political tactic of strategic leaking.
There was a Plan B and no commentator seriously doubts it. Paisley was under no illusion that it was a much more unpalatable option than reneging on the solemn promises he had made to his voters. It probably wouldn't have been called "Joint Authority" but it would have amounted to it.
The Labour government would have had few qualms about such an option as most of the party were much more in sympathy with the Irish nationalist position here at the time, than with unionists.
 

Paddyc

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Jan 30, 2009
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9,300
If Ireland votes to reunite,

Englands responsibility for Northern Ireland ends,

if you think reunification will effect your standard of living vote no,
Britain voted to leave the EU, has its responsibility to the EU ended?

Britain does not want a sectarian bloodbath or a failed state on its doorstep in the immediate aftermath of a vote to reunify the country. Britain would be eager to get shut of NI for a number of reasons:

It allows them the full Brexit they dream of without having to worry about a backstop
It reduces the financial drain on the exchequer over a number of years
It gets the DUP out of Westminster and removes the risk of SF ever darkening their door to back up a Corbyn minority government

All of those potential goodies come at a cost.

Everyone realises that a framework for a post-unification Ireland would have to be set out long in advance of any vote for reunification. If we've learned anything from the Brexit fiasco it's that.
 

death or glory

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DOG, if you honestly believe that the Plan B scenario was just a hypothesis created by journalists then you have much to learn about the political tactic of strategic leaking.
There was a Plan B and no commentator seriously doubts it. Paisley was under no illusion that it was a less acceptable option than reneging on the solemn promises he had made to his voters.
There was no real detail about Plan B and I'm sure there was a plan C and D that were equally vague.
Your supposed Plan B like Brexit had no real thinking behind because they thought it was very unlikely to happen.
I told you the reason Paisley did an about turn and the vast majority of poliical analysts and biographers say the same.
As I said your "pretty clear" was just wishful thinking in the upmost.
 

death or glory

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It was well know at the time dopey .. you just spent too much time under the car to notice :rolleyes:

you really are the runt of the litter arent you :ROFLMAO:
Maybe you could go back to hand milking that auld cow of yours. It might be a good hay year and you could get a few stacks saved in them auld wet meadows.
 

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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Mogg responds to Bertie : "Perhaps Ireland had a comedian as its leader before Ukraine."
 

AhNowStop

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Maybe you could go back to hand milking that auld cow of yours. It might be a good hay year and you could get a few stacks saved in them auld wet meadows.
lol dont worry sonny Ive left farming well behind me but if I was still farming at least I wouldnt be STOOPID enough to think that a hard brexit & hard border would be anything other than a clusterfuk for me .... you on the other hand ... :rolleyes:


btw, I notice you never got back to me regarding the answer I supplied to your question as to what in that other idiot farmers article I disagreed with ... I'll give you another go sure .. what could go wrong eh? :ROFLMAO:

i said:-
the most laughable is where he states that when single farm payments are stopped HMG will impose tariffs on goods coming in to the UK to protect local farming ... give me your views on this doggy?

but you've ran away and hid AGAIN .. Did yer mammy tell ye you were being stoopid too :oops: lol
 

death or glory

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lol dont worry sonny Ive left farming well behind me but if I was still farming at least I wouldnt be STOOPID enough to think that a hard brexit & hard border would be anything other than a clusterfuk for me .... you on the other hand ... :rolleyes:


btw, I notice you never got back to me regarding the answer I supplied to your question as to what in that other idiot farmers article I disagreed with ... I'll give you another go sure .. what could go wrong eh? :ROFLMAO:

i said:-
the most laughable is where he states that when single farm payments are stopped HMG will impose tariffs on goods coming in to the UK to protect local farming ... give me your views on this doggy?

but you've ran away and hid AGAIN .. Did yer mammy tell ye you were being stoopid too :oops: lol
Oh I know you are not a farmer.. it was when you said you were going to explain the benefits of milk quota's that gave it away.
Did you sell the 5 acres, the 2 cows and all the milk churns?
 

raetsel

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There was no real detail about Plan B and I'm sure there was a plan C and D that were equally vague.
There you go making unfounded assumptions again. And there was no discussion of a Plan C or D, so that is just patent nonsense.



Your supposed Plan B like Brexit had no real thinking behind because they thought it was very unlikely to happen.
I told you the reason Paisley did an about turn and the vast majority of poliical analysts and biographers say the same.
As I said your "pretty clear" was just wishful thinking in the upmost.
"There was no turning back. And if we had turned back, God help this country and what it would have come to."
Ian Paisley in 2014, talking about the decision to share power with Sinn Fein, something he had promised his voters that he would never do.
Who was Ian Paisley?

As the IRA had decommissioned their weapons five years before, and had been largely inactive since 1997, their threat had diminished hugely at that point, so where did Paisley see the threat arising out of? Use your head DOG.
 

death or glory

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There you go making unfounded assumptions again. And there was no discussion of a Plan C or D, so that is just patent nonsense.




"There was no turning back. And if we had turned back, God help this country and what it would have come to."
Ian Paisley in 2014, talking about the decision to share power with Sinn Fein, something he had promised his voters that he would never do.
Who was Ian Paisley?

As the IRA had decommissioned their weapons five years before, and had been largely inactive since 1997, their threat had diminished hugely at that point, so where did Paisley see the threat arising out of? Use your head DOG.
You are putting 2 and 2 together and getting any answer you want that isn't 4 .
The threat was always the RA, you imbecile,
They hadn't gone away you know.
Paisley knew like all the rest of us that joint sovereignty was never a realistic option, even nationalist politicians today know it is a pipe dream.
Just admit you are wrong because everyone else can see it.
 

AhNowStop

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Oh I know you are not a farmer.. it was when you said you were going to explain the benefits of milk quota's that gave it away.
Did you sell the 5 acres, the 2 cows and all the milk churns?
I told you sonny, once you respond to the answer I gave you "which you requested" btw, I will school you on quota's .. but I know you wont respond because like you, the idiot farmer you were referring to is as sharp as a sponge

but here's another chance anyway .. sure why not

i said:-
the most laughable is where he states that when single farm payments are stopped HMG will impose tariffs on goods coming in to the UK to protect local farming ...

give me your views on this doggy?


and you arent a farmer either sonny .. you're too thick
 

death or glory

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Grand
I told you sonny, once you respond to the answer I gave you "which you requested" btw, I will school you on quota's .. but I know you wont respond because like you, the idiot farmer you were referring to is as sharp as a sponge

but here's another chance anyway .. sure why not

i said:-
the most laughable is where he states that when single farm payments are stopped HMG will impose tariffs on goods coming in to the UK to protect local farming ...

give me your views on this doggy?


and you arent a farmer either sonny .. you're too thick
GRANDAD,
Where does milk come from.
Well son I used to hand milk an auld Moile cow in thon byre.
 

AhNowStop

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Grand

GRANDAD,
Where does milk come from.
Well son I used to hand milk an auld Moile cow in thon byre.

oh dear :rolleyes: just more idiotic deflection from a beaten docket .....

imagine being stoopid enough to ask me a question and then when I answer it not being able to respond .. what a tool :ROFLMAO:

you said...
Well what part of his argument do you disagree with.
That's a good starting place to counter it unless you have none and just resort to abuse.
now here's another wee reminder .. have a wee go sure, ye might surprise yourself

I said...
the most laughable is where he states that when single farm payments are stopped HMG will impose tariffs on goods coming in to the UK to protect local farming ...

give me your views on this doggy?




and now you're hiding again ... idiot
 

raetsel

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You are putting 2 and 2 together and getting any answer you want that isn't 4 .
The threat was always the RA, you imbecile,
The IRA had no guns weapons left worth talking about and in the post 9/11 climate, had very little prospect of re-arming to anything like their previous strength. Furthermore McGuinness and Adams were both approaching their sixtieth birthdays at that stage and clearly had no appetite for continuing the lives they had led until that point, particularly as both had achieved a sort of celebrity status at that stage. The IRA were no longer a major threat, just as the dissidents will never be able to mount a campaign like the one that raged from 1970 until 1996.
And when you are resorting to insulting people, you're losing the argument.:)
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Twitter
No
Going back to the subject of the thread I have to say the astonishing thing for me in all the Brexit travails is the unerring accuracy with which the Conservative and Unionist Party pursued a course of action likely to split their own party and secondly to hasten the whole subject of Irish Reunification.

You could not have predicted that ten years ago.
 

Mickeymac

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Going back to the subject of the thread I have to say the astonishing thing for me in all the Brexit travails is the unerring accuracy with which the Conservative and Unionist Party pursued a course of action likely to split their own party and secondly to hasten the whole subject of Irish Reunification.

You could not have predicted that ten years ago.
Absolutely 100% LT and a fast forward to unification by the very same people, party and country who imposed the injustice and undemocratic atrocity in the first place.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The "greasy till" is a terrible way of describing how the huge social costs of NI will be paid for by us.

You are saying in effect that many or most of the former "working class" will have to move elsewhere, given that our public provision is not up to the UK's, and as the state has never gone out of its way for the poor.

We have 2 bills to face -

1. The subvention that has been there since the 1930s, now around £10,000,000,000 annually, and so if we have 2,000,000 taxpayers here an average extra load of 5,000 p.a. on each.

2. The agreed net value of infrastructure like airports, roads, hospitals, not paid for in the £10 bill.... a bit more anyway. The EU might step in, but then they will want something from us like corporate tax reform.

End result, a poorer but united irish province of the eu. Sorta like we were in 1900.
I can't help noticing that when the banks required vast sums of money from the state we found the money somehow.

Apparently they were 'systemic'. So my suggestion would be to regard reunification as 'systemic' and we are away on a hack.

Not every decision can be made via the balance sheet, as the bank bailout clearly showed.
 

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