Brexit: solutions for trade with Ireland, freedom of movement & NI border +UK/I travel

cyberianpan

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The UK has a poorly functional government

The Conservative party was always split between leave & remain ...and now the split is on softer vs harder Brexits

Any Brexit bar a full hard Brexit will be quite complex

The UK and Ireland's relationship predates the EU, and indeed remains stronger than it, e.g.:
Citizens from either country, resident in the other, can vote in each other's General Elections

The aim of the EU-UK Brexit is to:
Still allow freedom of movement of UK/Irish citizens between the two countries
Ireland and the NI, to remain effectively a common market

That is kinda...tricky

Also any solution will have implications for:
Norther Irish politics & general GFA settlement
Scotland: they are close to NI and didn't want Brexit

Leo has given Theresa 2 weeks to produce her homework:

Government gives Theresa May two weeks to solve Border issue
Tánaiste Simon Coveney says the European Union taskforce, led by Michel Barnier, must receive detailed proposals in writing from the British government within a fortnight.

This would allow time to debate and discuss the proposals ahead of the European Council meeting on June 28th and 29th.
...
The UK and EU are due to agree a withdrawal agreement, including the Irish backstop, by October, but the Government has warned this will be thrown into doubt unless substantial progress is made this month.

The backstop – which would ensure no divergence in customs and trade rules between the Republic and Northern Ireland without agreed solutions on how to avoid a hard border – was agreed in principle in December, although the UK has rejected the EU’s legal interpretation of it.
Problem is...her Government is in full blown dysfunction - with everyone proposing solutions...problem is, those proposals lack specialist staff, and tend well...not to be very well thought through

Your proposals ?

Cyp
 


mac tíre

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Proposals?

The nordies are coming home.

Thanks, lads and mná.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

There should probably be a period of full stops to punctuate this concept
 

mac tíre

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There should probably be a period of full stops to punctuate this concept
Like a big thick marker on a small map?

Cos that is what they have suggested for us, old fish. As you know.
 

derryman

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We already have a very good thread on this serious topic. I suggest you stick with your adolescent fantasies and leave the adults to discuss the serious stuff.


But hould on a minute, on second thoughts we could send the other adolescents over here , to give us peace on the adult thread.
Hi blinding, flavoristis, newrybhoy come and have a look at this.
 

Tribal

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I know a solution to all of NI problems, Britain leaves and accepts it never had a democratic mandate from Ireland for partition.
 

Breanainn

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May folds, and whole UK remains in the customs union and single market - probably forced through by the House of Commons before the EU summits.
 

neiphin

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cyberianpan

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May folds, and whole UK remains in the customs union and single market - probably forced through by the House of Commons before the EU summits.
Yep

On viability grounds, that is the only solution currently showing

David Davis et al, are simply not competent at formulating a viable solution of the "harder Brexit" type

Does David Davis understand that he is not competent ?

Cyp
 

devnull

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So, the red lines are:
  1. No divergence between the EU and the RoI.
  2. No divergence between the RoI and NI.
  3. No divergence between NI and the rUK.
  4. Convergence between the rUK and the USA.

The only solution is for Britain to convince the USA to become a vassal of the EU, closing the circle with
5. No divergence between the USA and the EU

This might seem like a difficult argument to make to the Americans from a position of abject weakness, but the Brexiters do have some tried-and-trusted negotiating techniques for such situations:

  • Complain that the USA isn't respecting the result of the Brexit referendum.
  • Publish lots of insulting articles about the USA in your newspapers.
  • Without making any preparations, set a hard time limit for negotiations to end, and then spend all of the time arguing with yourself.
  • Ignore experts. You can learn everything you need to know about dealing with foreigners by watching 'The Italian Job'.
  • Incessantly make half-assed proposals that depend on future technological developments, impose insane administrative burdens, or breach agreements you've just made with the other side.
  • Loudly threaten to walk away from the table. If the other side point out your people will run out of food to eat in a few days, medicines to give to the ill in a few weeks, and ammunition to kill each other with in a few months, shout louder.
 
D

Deleted member 48908

Yep

On viability grounds, that is the only solution currently showing

David Davis et al, are simply not competent at formulating a viable solution of the "harder Brexit" type

Does David Davis understand that he is not competent ?

Cyp
Probably needs more periods

Or fullstops, depending how far west of Paris one is

You Brexit merchants will do anything to buy time, bar actually pay for it
 

cyberianpan

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So, the UK has published:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/714594/Technical_Note_-_temporary_customs_arrangement_document_final_clean.docx

The big fudge is around the putative sunset clause on the backstop

Analysis now needed

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1004706411874541568
I welcome publication of #UK proposal on customs aspects of IE/NI backstop.
We will examine it with 3 questions:

is it a workable solution to avoid a hard border?
Does it respect the integrity of the SM/CU?
Is it an all-weather backstop?
Cyp
 

NMunsterman

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Michel Bernier - EU
I welcome publication of #UK proposal on customs aspects of IE/NI backstop.
We will examine it with 3 questions:

1. Is it a workable solution to avoid a hard border?
2. Does it respect the integrity of the SM/CU?
3. Is it an all-weather backstop?

No analysis needed as the following 3 answers fully answer the above 3 questions :

1. - No
2. - No
3. - No
 

fifilawe

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So, the UK has published:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...nal_clean.docx

The big fudge is around the putative sunset clause on the backstop

Analysis now needed

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichelBar...06411874541568
I welcome publication of #UK proposal on customs aspects of IE/NI backstop.
We will examine it with 3 questions:

is it a workable solution to avoid a hard border?
Does it respect the integrity of the SM/CU?
Is it an all-weather backstop?
Cyp

have you been paid for this ? too?
 

cyberianpan

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So Barnier sez:

Trojan Horse as allows rest of UK in
Time limited, so not a backstop

The hard Brexiteers are getting infuriated by how hard this problem is

It is clear to me, that they are not properly staffed...half baked notions aplenty...tick...tock

Cyp
 


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