• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

BREXIT: the general forum [Original Thread]


Status
Not open for further replies.

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
There are a several Brexit threads on p.ie but none seem to fit some aspects, so I thought I'd start a general thread in which people can put various bits of Brexit stuff, or overall issues.

The Brexit referendum was won, inter alia, on lies, which Farage admitted the day after the Leave vote won by just a few percentage points, ignorance, hubris expressed by some Brits who oppose immigration and international interference. The referendum was advisory only, but the Tories decided to accept the results and eventually Theresa May signed a notice under Article 50 to say that GB will be leaving the EU in two years' time.

The EU holds all the cards, no matter the Brit bravado. I expect (sadly) that the divorce will be very hard on GB.

Few groups/people suggest that there be another referendum. These include the LibDems, and Tony Blair, while the current Labour leader hasn't the foggiest as per usual. IMHO it may be more democratic to let voters have another say, now that they know the consequences of leaving the EU and that they were lied to, blatantly, by the Brexit leaders.

What do you think about this and any other issue regarding Brexit?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
Here is an article from today's Observer about the influence of a "shadowy global operation" by rich men influenced Brexit. It may already be influencing the 8 June election results. British electoral laws cannot yet cope with digital influence.

[h=1]The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked[/h]
A shadowy global operation involving big data, billionaire friends of Trump and the disparate forces of the Leave campaign influenced the result of the EU referendum. As Britain heads to the polls again, is our electoral process still fit for purpose?
A company called Cambridge Analytics, a data company owned by billionaire Robert Mercer, whose daughter was very influential in Don "Capone" Trump's campaign, was involved in the referendum. He is also a good friend of Nigel Farage :shock: The article has chilling comments:
It … reveals a critical and gaping hole in the political debate in Britain. Because what is happening in America and what is happening in Britain are entwined. Brexit and Trump are entwined. The Trump administration’s links to Russia and Britain are entwined. And Cambridge Analytica is one point of focus through which we can see all these relationships in play; it also reveals the elephant in the room as we hurtle into a general election: Britain tying its future to an America that is being remade - in a radical and alarming way - by Trump.There are three strands to this story. How the foundations of an authoritarian surveillance state are being laid in the US. How British democracy was subverted through a covert, far-reaching plan of coordination enabled by a US billionaire. And how we are in the midst of a massive land grab for power by billionaires via our data. Data which is being silently amassed, harvested and stored. Whoever owns this data owns the future.
What, I wonder, is the endgame? Power for power's sake? I am puzzled by all this. Do these powers want to end GB, the EU and anything else? How can data owners "own the future"?
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
31,993
FFS, when will people realise d'internet is not the centre of most people's lives, it isn't even as influential as TV.
 

Man or Mouse

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
7,110
There are a several Brexit threads on p.ie but none seem to fit some aspects, so I thought I'd start a general thread in which people can put various bits of Brexit stuff, or overall issues.

The Brexit referendum was won, inter alia, on lies, which Farage admitted the day after the Leave vote won by just a few percentage points, ignorance, hubris expressed by some Brits who oppose immigration and international interference. The referendum was advisory only, but the Tories decided to accept the results and eventually Theresa May signed a notice under Article 50 to say that GB will be leaving the EU in two years' time.

The EU holds all the cards, no matter the Brit bravado. I expect (sadly) that the divorce will be very hard on GB.

Few groups/people suggest that there be another referendum. These include the LibDems, and Tony Blair, while the current Labour leader hasn't the foggiest as per usual. IMHO it may be more democratic to let voters have another say, now that they know the consequences of leaving the EU and that they were lied to, blatantly, by the Brexit leaders.

What do you think about this and any other issue regarding Brexit?
D'ya think they'll leave?
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,898
The EU is a union of nearly thirty European democracies each of which signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest in a continent which has suffered centuries of imperial and totalitarian violence.

It is the most advanced such treaty in the world.

But after decades of anti-EU propaganda in their media the English do not want the EU to exist any longer.

Consequently through Brexit - which they hope will be reinforced by this election - they are tearing up their part of the treaty they signed.

They also support those racists and fascists in the rest of Europe who favour doing the same thing.

The English have, therefore, declared racist and economic war on the rest of the EU.

There will be the hardest of Brexits and Ireland will suffer.

The fact that some people advocate that we join them outside the EU is to put it mildly not a good idea.
 
Last edited:

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,297
Brexit should have its own forum here.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
The EU is a union of nearly thirty European democracies each of which signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest in a continent which has suffered centuries of imperial and totalitarian violence.

It is the most advanced such treaty in the world.

But after decades of anti-EU propaganda in their media the English do not want the EU to exist any longer.

Consequently through Brexit - which they hope will be reinforced by this election - they are tearing up their part of the treaty they signed.

The English have, therefore, declared racist and economic war on the rest of the EU.

There will be the hardest of Brexits and Ireland will suffer.

The fact that some people advocate that we join them outside the EU is to put it mildly not a good idea.


They also support those racists and fascists in the rest of Europe who favour doing the same thing.
I think Ireland will hang in there in the EU. It is no longer so dependent upon GB as it was when it joined the EEC and Ireland had no choice but to join too or be financially doomed. And I do hope the EU will help the 6 counties being reunited with the other 26. In the meantime there may be a problem with the landborder, but I hope not.
 

cricket

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
14,029
I think you'll get nothing but posturing from most parties in the UK until after the GE. The real test will come when they get down to talks. There is little indication so far as to what UK realistically expect.We're in for a long and dirty campaign.
 

Mad as Fish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,449
Here is an article from today's Observer about the influence of a "shadowy global operation" by rich men influenced Brexit. It may already be influencing the 8 June election results. British electoral laws cannot yet cope with digital influence.

[h=1]The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked[/h]

A company called Cambridge Analytics, a data company owned by billionaire Robert Mercer, whose daughter was very influential in Don "Capone" Trump's campaign, was involved in the referendum. He is also a good friend of Nigel Farage :shock: The article has chilling comments:

What, I wonder, is the endgame? Power for power's sake? I am puzzled by all this. Do these powers want to end GB, the EU and anything else? How can data owners "own the future"?
Ask Gates, Tusk, Uber, Amazon etc etc. They want their tentacles in every part of your life for the sake of having some sort over power over you. Digitization has allowed and encouraged this and they are getting dizzy just thinking about what they hope to achieve. Try and stand up to this brutal rape of your privacy and right to self determination and you'll have the children screaming Luddite at you because they have been taught to compartmentalise life into the narrow confines of digital logic rather than appreciate the richness of possessing an all encompassing soul and human spirit.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,898
Ask, Gates, Tusk, Uber, Amazon etc etc. They want their tentacles in every part of your life for the sake of having some sort over power over you. Digitization has allowed and encouraged this and they are getting dizzy just thinking about what they hope to achieve. Try and stand up to this brutal rape of your privacy and right to self determination and you'll have the children screaming Luddite at you because they have been taught to compartmentalise life into the narrow confines of digital logic rather than appreciate the richness of possessing an all encompassing soul and human spirit.
Being part of the EU is losing your 'all encompassing soul and human spirit'?

A bit of an exaggeration.

Leaving the EU and rejoining the UK might be a bit much alright.
 

Wascurito

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
7,464
Brexit should have its own forum here.
This would make a lot of sense. The French and UK 2017 elections each has their own forum even though they'll be done and dusted in five weeks.

Brexit will run for years.
 

Mad as Fish

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,449
Being part of the EU is losing your 'all encompassing soul and human spirit'?

A bit of an exaggeration.

Leaving the EU and rejoining the UK might be a bit much alright.
You are a silly boy, I was responding to a particular part of the post (note the words 'data owners') and indicated this by marking it in bold. Now do grow up and start thinking a bit before setting off on your tired little hobby horse.
 

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,297
This would make a lot of sense. The French and UK 2017 elections each has their own forum even though they'll be done and dusted in five weeks.

Brexit will run for years.
Yep. And Shiel will keep posting his single tranferrable post in it. :)

It is going to have political, economic and cultural aspects that will generate threads that might otherwise be swamped in the main fora.
 

jmcc

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
42,297
Posted a request for a forum specifically for Brexit in Feedback. Hopefully something will happen about it.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Messages
54
There are a several Brexit threads on p.ie but none seem to fit some aspects, so I thought I'd start a general thread in which people can put various bits of Brexit stuff, or overall issues.

The Brexit referendum was won, inter alia, on lies, which Farage admitted the day after the Leave vote won by just a few percentage points, ignorance, hubris expressed by some Brits who oppose immigration and international interference. The referendum was advisory only, but the Tories decided to accept the results and eventually Theresa May signed a notice under Article 50 to say that GB will be leaving the EU in two years' time.

The EU holds all the cards, no matter the Brit bravado. I expect (sadly) that the divorce will be very hard on GB.

Few groups/people suggest that there be another referendum. These include the LibDems, and Tony Blair, while the current Labour leader hasn't the foggiest as per usual. IMHO it may be more democratic to let voters have another say, now that they know the consequences of leaving the EU and that they were lied to, blatantly, by the Brexit leaders.

What do you think about this and any other issue regarding Brexit?
We were lied to by everybody. Don't forget Osborne's manipulation of the Treasury Report to put the worst possible angle on it. Don't forget Obama's promise that the US would abandon us, made less than a year before he was due to leave office himself with no ability to bind his successor.

While it is true that the referendum was not legally binding, it was politically binding. The possibility of a 'second referendum' is generally seen as an attempt to subvert democracy by those who lost first time out.

The EU doesn't hold all the cards. In particular, the UK has provided the EU with a major source of funds and a sink for their surplus populations. Losing those would create significant difficulties for the EU.

At this stage no-one knows the consequences of leaving the EU, since no-one knows the future. Even when the terms of leaving have been decided, they will only give a short-term view and will not really give any indication as to how things will work out further on.
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,683
Build the wall...
 

Nitrogen

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
1,023
I think Ireland will hang in there in the EU. It is no longer so dependent upon GB as it was when it joined the EEC and Ireland had no choice but to join too or be financially doomed. And I do hope the EU will help the 6 counties being reunited with the other 26. In the meantime there may be a problem with the landborder, but I hope not.
I’m no fan of Brussels, nor indeed of this government, but from a purely strategic point of view, Ireland is better off continuing to stay onside with the EU, for now anyway.

Thinking about how all this might pan out, there appear to be, more or less, four possible scenarios;

1. If it all works out amicably, and all of Europe grows and prospers, then it won’t matter that much what side we take.

2. If the west continues its’ decline to Asia, then it probably won’t matter that much either.

3. If the EU unravels and Britain, having escaped early, manages to weather the storm the best and emerge phoenix like from the remnants of its’ empire, then they will probably forgive us for not supporting them now and geography, language, culture and historical ties will allow us to renew economic links etc.

4. But what if it is Britain which unravels and goes down the tube while the EU, including the Eurozone, manages to get its’ house in order? If we have backed Britain in such a scenario, we would then be on our own. Furthermore, in such circumstances the Scots would almost certainly have escaped the sinking ship and may usurp the role we’re trying to carve out for ourselves (as the sane anglophone country in the EU).

Scenario 3 is IMO probably the least likely at the moment, but even if it were more likely, it would still be better to stay loyal to the EU, as scenario 4 is the only avoidable catastrophic outcome.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
Mods:

can you please move this thread to the new Brexit forum, and rename the thread to "...general thread" rather than "...general forum" - if that's possible.

I'll be adding more to this thread and hopefully generate new posts from others.

Thx for creating the special Brexit forum. It makes it much easier to find relevant threads.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
I’m no fan of Brussels, nor indeed of this government, but from a purely strategic point of view, Ireland is better off continuing to stay onside with the EU, for now anyway.

Thinking about how all this might pan out, there appear to be, more or less, four possible scenarios;

1. If it all works out amicably, and all of Europe grows and prospers, then it won’t matter that much what side we take.

2. If the west continues its’ decline to Asia, then it probably won’t matter that much either.

3. If the EU unravels and Britain, having escaped early, manages to weather the storm the best and emerge phoenix like from the remnants of its’ empire, then they will probably forgive us for not supporting them now and geography, language, culture and historical ties will allow us to renew economic links etc.

4. But what if it is Britain which unravels and goes down the tube while the EU, including the Eurozone, manages to get its’ house in order? If we have backed Britain in such a scenario, we would then be on our own. Furthermore, in such circumstances the Scots would almost certainly have escaped the sinking ship and may usurp the role we’re trying to carve out for ourselves (as the sane anglophone country in the EU).

Scenario 3 is IMO probably the least likely at the moment, but even if it were more likely, it would still be better to stay loyal to the EU, as scenario 4 is the only avoidable catastrophic outcome.
I don't think the EU will unravel, and I agree it is best for Ireland to remain within the EU at least for the time being. After 800 years of rule by the Brits it is good Ireland can tell GB it is no longer economically dependent upon it. Also I like the idea that the EU will help the reunification of Ireland.

GB may not unravel either, but it is more likely to do so than the EU, imho.

Various countries seem to be dangling lower corporation taxes as bait for multinationals and smaller companies. Hmm, may be bad for Ireland.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
I think Ireland will hang in there in the EU. It is no longer so dependent upon GB as it was when it joined the EEC and Ireland had no choice but to join too or be financially doomed. And I do hope the EU will help the 6 counties being reunited with the other 26. In the meantime there may be a problem with the landborder, but I hope not.
Merkel, Trichet, Sarkozy, Olli Rehn also think Ireland should hang. Greece is rvidence of where it all eventually ends.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top