BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)


ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,618
The backstop applies only under the May deal, which is dead in the water. A no-deal situation has no backstop.
The resulting United Ireland that will come from a No Deal will negate the need for a backstop.
 

Spanner Island

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
24,220
I think that we all like politics and like talking about it. And the MPs live politics and like talking about.

Most people don't care. There's a reason the Tories keep getting re-elected, there's a reason Labour under Blair did as well. People want things done. They don't necessarily want change, and certainly not to the stage of risking things not working.

They want this done. They want it over. It's why I think the talk of "Oh well if the result is undone, or there's a deal that leaves the UK somehow linked to the ECJ, there'll be RIOTS!" is overblown. Good deal, bad deal, no deal. They just want this over so that things like healthcare and crime can be fixed.

If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly.
Yep - they need to Brexit and they need to experience the reality of Brexit - good or bad.

They would be unbearable and even more of a thorn in the EU's side if they failed to leave and experience leaving...

They would whinge and moan even more than they have throughout their membership to date and would blame the EU for anything and everything 'going forward'...

They also need to find out what parts of 'Project Fear' are in fact 'Project Reality' which won't be as easily dismissed or ignored...

They've been gaslit for over 4 decades with relentless anti-EU boll*cks which they have lapped up without sussing out if it's been utter bullsh!t or not... (most of it has been utter bullsh!t of course)

The really sad thing about it all though... is that many of the silver spooned tools who have sold them Brexit won't suffer as a result of Brexit even in the worst outcome... all those silver spooned tools who having thrived within the EU still want more and who will be alright Jack while the plebs take the hits... as usual...
 

midlander12

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,594
I'm guessing that a deal with Labour would split the Tories, the avoidance of which appears to be May's main motivation, but you might be right. The EU would have to be on board too, though, to extend A 50. Without any prospect of a referendum, would they be likely to give Theresa and Jeremy a tired nod?
Well of course Labour will probably split too, so I guess that makes it a draw! It mightn't require an extension of A50. I think things will move pretty fast after Tuesday. They already did this week.
 

Toland

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
64,550
Website
www.aggressive-secularist.com
Well of course Labour will probably split too, so I guess that makes it a draw! It mightn't require an extension of A50. I think things will move pretty fast after Tuesday. They already did this week.
That all sounds fair enough. But my point was not about how Labour and the Tories would fair relative to one another. It was about Theresa May's motivations.
 

talkingshop

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
27,190
It's not best for me or mine, but I am resigned to it. I just hope we can recover quickly.
Under May's deal they may never really leave in the end - extension of transition period, endless negotiations...maybe an application to rejoin some years down the road! Or some relationship so close that they might as well be in the EU. But I think it's better for democracy that the referendum result be implemented now, even in some half-measure way.
 

Toland

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
64,550
Website
www.aggressive-secularist.com

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,820
The backstop applies only under the May deal, which is dead in the water. A no-deal situation has no backstop.
But the UK cannot countenance a No Deal.

Economic wasteland.
 

hollandia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
30,988
[TWEET]1084135345216802816[/TWEET]

Another reason not to call people "Traitors". It makes you look like these horrible people.
I note Mr jones is calling them fascists. Does that make him look like those people too?
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,871
Hooooooow does Grayling still have a job.
The number of rapes, murders and other serious crimes committed by offenders on parole has risen by more than 50% since reforms to probation were introduced four years ago, according to official data that has triggered calls for the government to rethink its plans for another shake-up of the service.

Serious further offence reviews – which take place when a convicted offender under supervision is charged with another serious offence (SFO) – rose from 409 in the year before the 2014 reforms to 627 in the 12 months up to last April.

The new figures for England and Wales – which were shared with Plaid Cymru’s justice spokeswoman, Liz Saville Roberts – come as it emerges that coroners have taken the highly unusual decision to reopen inquests into three people killed by offenders under supervision, a move that is expected to expose systemic flaws in the probation service.

The problems are blamed on former justice secretary Chris Grayling’s reform programme, which saw some probation work outsourced to eight private providers, who were given responsibility for running 21 community rehabilitation companies working with low and medium risk offenders.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,620
[TWEET]1084135345216802816[/TWEET]

Another reason not to call people "Traitors". It makes you look like these horrible people.
Have you seen those horrible peoples' manifesto? Take a look, hopefully any illusion of a resemblance will then recede...

That

That is seriously their list of demands!
 

Toland

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
64,550
Website
www.aggressive-secularist.com
Have you seen those horrible peoples' manifesto? Take a look, hopefully any illusion of a resemblance will then recede...

That

That is seriously their list of demands!
Most people isn't interested in manifestos, though. Videos are much more attractive. I include myself in that judgement, by the way.

Edit:

*chuckle*
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,871
Sorry to make the obvious retort and say:
Couldn't you ask the same about the whole lot?
You can't though. Hancock and Hunt managed to put together a longterm NHS plan, Rudd's making the right efforts trying to fix the mess of Universal Credit.

But Grayling consistently leaves a shambles behind him. He's incredibly incompetent. And this is the latest example of that incompetence.
 

Toland

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
64,550
Website
www.aggressive-secularist.com
You can't though. Hancock and Hunt managed to put together a longterm NHS plan, Rudd's making the right efforts trying to fix the mess of Universal Credit.

But Grayling consistently leaves a shambles behind him. He's incredibly incompetent. And this is the latest example of that incompetence.
Perhaps I'm being blinded by the overall effect.
 
Top