BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)


Dame_Enda

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The Wollaston amendment has been defeated. Just 85 voted for it. It would have required a second referendum and an extension of Article 50. They are now voting on seeking an extension to Article 50 until June 30th.
 

shiel

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Brexiteers have torn up the agreements the UK, as one of the most powerful countries in the world, signed with nearly thirty other European democracies to cooperate in matters of mutual interest.

Ireland was a colony of the UK for the best part of eight centuries.

It also signed the treaty to join the EU at the same time.

In addition the UK and Ireland signed the Good Friday Agreement, which together with the recent visit of the Queen, drew a line under that nearly eight centuries of colonial rule.

The Good Friday Agreement, therefore, binds both countries internationally to the deal.

This was also endorsed in joint referenda on both sides of the Irish border.

After it was ratified both governments lodged the agreement as a treaty with the United Nations.

It is a tragedy that Brexit has torn up both treaties.

Those are the facts and yet some people want Paddy to shut his gob and refrain from stating these facts.
 

Dame_Enda

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Another amendment is being voted on now. It would give parliament control of business next Wednesday in order to reach a cross party agreement on the way forward.
 

Dame_Enda

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Brexiteers have torn up the agreements the UK, as one of the most powerful countries in the world, signed with nearly thirty other European democracies to cooperate in matters of mutual interest.

Ireland was a colony of the UK for the best part of eight centuries.

It also signed the treaty to join the EU at the same time.

In addition the UK and Ireland signed the Good Friday Agreement, which together with the recent visit of the Queen, drew a line under that nearly eight centuries of colonial rule.

The Good Friday Agreement, therefore, binds both countries internationally to the deal.

This was also endorsed in joint referenda on both sides of the Irish border.

After it was ratified both governments lodged the agreement as a treaty with the United Nations.

It is a tragedy that Brexit has torn up both treaties.

Those are the facts and yet some people want Paddy to shut his gob and refrain from stating these facts.
As someone who read the GFA from end to end in 1998, I dont recall any references in it to the UK or NI remaining in the EU.
 

Dame_Enda

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Benn amendment just defeated by 2 votes (314-312). Another amendment (the Corbyn one) being voted on now. A lot of abstentions.

The Corbyn amendment would seek extension to Article 50 and parliamentary time to find majority for different approach.
 
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Dame_Enda

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Hillary Benn MP saying that the UK govt has conceded it will hold another meaningful vote on March 25th which can be amended.
 

Dame_Enda

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Amendment J being voted on now. Under it, the Government would agree Article 50 extension with the EU. This motion is supported by the UK Government.,
 

hiding behind a poster

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Naked europhilia - you have fallen victim to the EU spin machine. But then you lot thought the Irish were monumentally stupid when they left the UK.
Who are you referring to by "your lot"?
 

hiding behind a poster

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Yes - I’ve already suggested a referendum that would build on the first referendum. That referendum decided the remain/leave question, no reason to pursue it further. There are now two leave options - no-deal and the May deal - and a second referendum would now be appropriate to determine the people’s choice in regard to the form of their departure.
But the whole point of Brexit was supposedly that Parliament would take back control - why can't a majority in Parliament put a May's Deal/Remain option before the people?
 

hiding behind a poster

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You are still dodging that issue in that you view remaining in the CU as an exit option. It is not, for the reason explained to you.
No, that's the very point I'm making - the mendacious failure of the Leave side to point out, during the referendum campaign, that it would not be possible to leave the EU, AND trade freely with the EU, AND make free trade deals with other countries. Remember the "easiest trade deal in history" line?
 

Dame_Enda

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My reading of the outcome is that the votes for a second referendum are not there in the House of Commons. But the votes for an extension are.

Update: 100 Tory MPs voted against the govt motion that seeks an extension of Article 50, including Andrea Leadsom (Leader of the House) and Liam Fox (International Trade Secretary).
 
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Sailor

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But the whole point of Brexit was supposedly that Parliament would take back control - why can't a majority in Parliament put a May's Deal/Remain option before the people?
Why should they offer a remain option when the people have already rejected that option? They voted to leave, and there are now two possible leave options - May deal and No deal. Putting this choice to the people is the only logical and democratic basis for a further referendum. In fact the only motive or reason for a second referendum is the hope of a reversal of the first referendum vote.
 
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Sailor

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No, that's the very point I'm making - the mendacious failure of the Leave side to point out, during the referendum campaign, that it would not be possible to leave the EU, AND trade freely with the EU, AND make free trade deals with other countries. Remember the "easiest trade deal in history" line?
The fact that there were lies told in the referendum - and there were lies told by both sides, as in all referendums - is of no relevance now.
 

Dame_Enda

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Its bizarre that the hardline Eurosceptics are the main obstacle to the passage of the May Brexit deal. Had they voted yes a few days ago it could have passed.
 

darkhorse4

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Its bizarre that the hardline Eurosceptics are the main obstacle to the passage of the May Brexit deal. Had they voted yes a few days ago it could have passed.
May's deal doesn't offer the extra Unicorns hardline Brexiteers believe are coming so they can never accept it
Less hardline Brexiteers seem happy enough to accept the disaster they brought upon themselves blaming 'the people' for telling them to do it
 

hiding behind a poster

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Why should they offer a remain option when the people have already rejected that option? They voted to leave, and there are now two possible leave options - May deal and No deal. Putting this choice to the people is the only logical and democratic basis for a further referendum. In fact the only motive or reason for a second referendum is the hope of a reversal of the first referendum vote.
Very simple. What Brexit actually was, in terms of trade, freedom of movement etc, wasn't consistently specified in the referendum campaign. A series of different and often contradictory Brexits were put forward by the Leave side. Now that there's a single, clear version of Brexit that would by then (referendum time) had been passed by Parliament, why not let the people have a proper vote? If a majority want to leave, they'll still vote leave, while if, after seeing what Brexit actually means rather than the campaign bullshit, they'd rather remain, surely that majority view should also be heard?

Your view seems to be that because the people spoke once on Brexit, they must shut up and never say a word about it ever again.
 
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