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BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)


galteeman

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"The Socialist Party will present the truth “in the way which is most digestible to the working class at a particular time”, TD Paul Murphy has said.

In internal documents discussing Brexit and wider strategy, he asks: “Are we guilty of not ‘telling the truth’ to the working class when we don’t bring a demand to leave the EU?

“We always tell the truth to the working class. But we present the truth in the way which is most digestible to the working class at a particular time.”"
Inside Ireland’s Socialist Party: telling the ‘digestible’ truth - Irish Times

It's strange to say because it doesn't seem to make sense but the Irish Socialist parties are Unionist parties - not in the sense of nostalgia for the British Empire but as a means to unite the Proletariat of the British Isles in one system with them being the agents of the "revolution" in Ireland.

They engage in something called agitprop - or agitational propaganda - which is basically using any means to stoke up anger and resentment to get people to throw enough spanners in the works to collapse the system so they can grab power.

They will use any methods to bring about this collapse because of the justification created by how wicked they cast the image of those frustrating their will to power. They are liars without shame. It's just important to understand this when reading or listening to them.

They're not operating by the established or commonsense rules of co-operation or competition - they operate by ideological ones. Their advantage is the gap between what they will do and what you think the bounds of conduct are. Other than that they'll substantially useless which is why whenever they have an upper hand everything always ends in tears and hardship.

Anyway, as for Brexit, we can file it for a while. Either there'll be a Brexit according to the Withdrawal Agreement or with a Customs Union or none at all. The key learning point is the decline of quality within the political system in Britain brought about by negative selection and undisciplined unethical behaviour.

Negative selection is when you put someone into a position that they're unable to fill it and who, as a consequence, relies on squeezing those reporting to them to keep the function running. Teaming breaks down and the shafting game takes over. It acts contrary to meritocracy and has a whole body of observational behavioural traits that don't yet seem to be recorded in a way that's generally available.

This affects your life, whether you're able to recognise it or not, so you keep an eye open for it. Be fair and honest to all but don't be a coward by being bullied into wrongly apportioning good faith to everyone claiming your help. If you give into to it you may get relief from discomfort for a moment but it'll inevitably drag you down into a circle of hell and you will lose yourself.

Once your spirit is broken you'll just spend all your time and energy whining or preying on other people in an effort to get them to fix your inconveniences and realise your fantasies for you rather than looking for opportunities to reply to your challenges and realise your ambitions for yourself.
Personally I am always highly aware that a small but still significant proportion of people are pretty clever but actually useless or insanely lazy at doing what they are supposed to do.
Bizarrely the same people are often to be found in positions of power and wealth chiefly because they're so good at lying.
 

raetsel

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interesting to note the tiny proportion of labour voters switching to a leave party. That suggests to me there is little risk in labour taking a more Pro EU stance.
Also interesting that the recognisably hard Brexit vote ( UKIP, Farage & Co., and the Tories) can only muster 45% between them.
 

shiel

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Blair and Ahern who signed the GFA have a joint article on the Irish Times today arguing for a second vote on Brexit.
 

shiel

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Article from Belfast Telegraph reports:

'The woman charged by Theresa May with planning how the UK's borders will operate after Brexit has told businesses here that there is no magic technological solution for preventing a hard border in Ireland.'

Evidence from the horse's mouth that Brexiteers have torn up the GFA and declared economic war.
 

Dame_Enda

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Sky news mentioned a newspaper poll tomorrow that puts the Brexit party in first place ahead of Tories and Labour for euro election.
 

shiel

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Quote from the Guardian.

' Unless the UK ratifies the withdrawal deal or cancels Brexit it may yet crash out of the EU with no deal, wreaking havoc on both sides of the Irish border and rendering the backstop a hollow victory. '
 

petaljam

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Some quite complimentary comments in a Guardian article about the Backstop today. Unusual for the British media to acknowledge that Dublin was way ahead of London when it came to the implications of Brexit. Definitely worth a read from our point of view.

How the Irish backstop emerged as May's Brexit nemesis
Funnily enough I was actually coming on here to mention the very same article and I saw you got in before me. I thought it was a really interesting piece going back over the early days and even pre referendum - stuff I had forgotten or just not picked up on at the time.
 

Volatire

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Some quite complimentary comments in a Guardian article about the Backstop today. Unusual for the British media to acknowledge that Dublin was way ahead of London when it came to the implications of Brexit. Definitely worth a read from our point of view.

How the Irish backstop emerged as May's Brexit nemesis
The problem with The Guardian is absence of analytical thinking.

Instead it is a globalist rag that survives by delivering confirmation-bias dopamine hits to lefties, europhiles, islamophiles etc.

Like The Sun, but for academics and leftie self-regarders.

Outside that circle, its influence is precisely zero.
 

Mickeymac

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Funnily enough I was actually coming on here to mention the very same article and I saw you got in before me. I thought it was a really interesting piece going back over the early days and even pre referendum - stuff I had forgotten or just not picked up on at the time.

Worst kept secret appears to be everyone “gets” Brexit bar the Brits.
 

SamsonS

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Quote from the Guardian.

' Unless the UK ratifies the withdrawal deal or cancels Brexit it may yet crash out of the EU with no deal, wreaking havoc on both sides of the Irish border and rendering the backstop a hollow victory. '
You picked a strange line to highlight!
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The problem with The Guardian is absence of analytical thinking.

Instead it is a globalist rag that survives by delivering confirmation-bias dopamine hits to lefties, europhiles, islamophiles etc.

Like The Sun, but for academics and leftie self-regarders.

Outside that circle, its influence is precisely zero.
Are you sure you aren't describing the way you'd prefer the world to be?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Thinking about the context there was the recent incident where the Ambassador in London complained about a recent patronising New Spectator article, I think it was. Some incidents in the media in the heat of Brexit angst in the last few months where there was far too much patronising comment about the Irish position on the backstop.

Interestingly timed article.

Should we see some unusually flattering comment in the British media over the next few weeks it would make me wonder whether there is some idea cooking in Whitehall for which the UK government needs Dublin's agreement.

Welcome to 'compliments-watch', the world's most cynical new game.
 

AhNowStop

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Thinking about the context there was the recent incident where the Ambassador in London complained about a recent patronising New Spectator article, I think it was. Some incidents in the media in the heat of Brexit angst in the last few months where there was far too much patronising comment about the Irish position on the backstop.

Interestingly timed article.

Should we see some unusually flattering comment in the British media over the next few weeks it would make me wonder whether there is some idea cooking in Whitehall for which the UK government needs Dublin's agreement.

Welcome to 'compliments-watch', the world's most cynical new game.
tbf I think the Guardian usually isnt too bad towards us .. now if the spectator starts throwing roses our way we'd better watch out :sneaky:
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Aptly-named magazine, when you think on it. Perhaps it is a cultural reference to the status of being a spectator in world affairs ever since the Suez debacle.
 

galteeman

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The problem with The Guardian is absence of analytical thinking.

Instead it is a globalist rag that survives by delivering confirmation-bias dopamine hits to lefties, europhiles, islamophiles etc.

Like The Sun, but for academics and leftie self-regarders.

Outside that circle, its influence is precisely zero.
That's actually fair comment on the Guardian, it has less than one-tenth of the readership of the Sun for example.
Funny thing is that the Telegraph is rabidly pro brexit and it has about 3 times as many readers as the Guardian but I was reading this morning that almost half of the Telegraph readers are actually Remain supporters!
 
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