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BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)

firefly123

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God only knows what the thought processes of average Irish Europhobe involve, but logic isn't part of the process.
Having witnessed the chaos, mayhem and bitter divisions which have torn the UK asunder in the last three years as a result of Brexit, you'd have thought that the penny would have dropped by now that it is just bonkers to suggest that Ireland do the same.
Fortunately there is no hope of this Euro-hating coalition of fantasists and fruitloops ever being anything other than a small minority in Ireland.
And yet every time I turn on the bleedin radio Ray Bassett is on doing his "I'm just asking questions" concern trolling routine giving the impression there is some sort of silent majority of irexiteers here.
Not one of the useless hosts asks him who his backers are. What "think tanks" he is employed by and What his mandate is.

For the sake of balance is it?

edit. after a small bit of googling he works for policy exchange a self described centre right think tank.

Policy exchange is pretty vague about where it's money comes from.
Think tank Transparify, which is funded by the Open Society Foundations, ranked the Policy Exchange as one of the three least transparent think tanks in the UK in relation to funding.
They appear to have big right wing US backers...

 
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raetsel

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I don't have a dog in in the race, nobody over here cares. It certainly wont be the global calamity that the OP claimed.
🙄
You're a total bluffer. Either you didn't read the opening post or you have serious comprehension skills. The opening poster didn't mention anything about a 'global calamity' or even allude to economic disaster at all. This is the opening post. And he didn't allude to it in his second post either.
There are a several Brexit threads on p.ie but none seem to fit some aspects, so I thought I'd start a general thread in which people can put various bits of Brexit stuff, or overall issues.

The Brexit referendum was won, inter alia, on lies, which Farage admitted the day after the Leave vote won by just a few percentage points, ignorance, hubris expressed by some Brits who oppose immigration and international interference. The referendum was advisory only, but the Tories decided to accept the results and eventually Theresa May signed a notice under Article 50 to say that GB will be leaving the EU in two years' time.

The EU holds all the cards, no matter the Brit bravado. I expect (sadly) that the divorce will be very hard on GB.

Few groups/people suggest that there be another referendum. These include the LibDems, and Tony Blair, while the current Labour leader hasn't the foggiest as per usual. IMHO it may be more democratic to let voters have another say, now that they know the consequences of leaving the EU and that they were lied to, blatantly, by the Brexit leaders.

What do you think about this and any other issue regarding Brexit?
 

shiel

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I don't have a dog in in the race, nobody over here cares. It certainly wont be the global calamity that the OP claimed.
Brexit is a major mistake.

I hope not but it could end up with the dismantling of the EU, the revival of fascism, the reintroduction of the iron curtain and the UK becoming a virtual 51st state of the US.
 

raetsel

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Brexit is a major mistake.

It could end up with the dismantling of the EU, the revival of fascism, the reintroduction of the iron curtain and the UK becoming a virtual 51st state of the US.
It won't. But that is what the Europhobes want more than anything. They want anarchy in order to replace liberal democracy with far right regimes all across Europe, who will shoot on sight any African or middle Eastern refugees who have the nerve to land on European shores.
 

Tippytop

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Brexit is a major mistake.

I hope not but it could end up with the dismantling of the EU, the revival of fascism, the reintroduction of the iron curtain and the UK becoming a virtual 51st state of the US.
Why would it end up with dismantlement of the EU, that's up to the EU not the Brits, you can't be arguing that just because the Brits leave the rest wont hang together? Ok, one or two more may leave but there will be the hardcore of Germany, France, Benelux, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, not sure about Denmark, Poland and the East or Italy for that matter. In fact I doubt hardly any / or many others will leave although I can see a two or three tier organization, maybe two Euros or one Euro and more national currencies.

Personally I think unless something in German economic policy changes there is no way half of the current euro states can stay in the same currency as Germany. The German's are exporting too much and half of those exports go to the E.U. so essentially there is a stream of wealth going from the EU countries to Germany that is unsustainable, more so because the Euro is set too high for the less efficient countries (almost everybody) to export to the rest of the world to bring in the wealth / value to replace that which they are spending on German exports.

The iron curtain? That existed when a soviet army invaded or occupied eastern Europe (in fairness, only after being invaded or occupied by several central European countries, most notably Germany) however peace in Europe (lack of iron curtain inc) exists because of NATO and the bomb. Again, the brits leaving the EU has no bearing on this.

Fascism / Communism will occur when the people are neglected or failed by the mainstream, not likely to be caused by Brexit, Dexit or whoeverxit. Possibly caused by a ludicrous currency beggaring two generations of southern Europeans who will increasingly realize that unless something is changed (no sign of it yet) that system can only make them poorer = desperation = vote for desperate solutions. German Hyper Inflation and starvation = National Socialism, Russian abject policy and rank injustice = Lenin and eventually Stalin. Collapse of social order and civil war = Franco, All of the above = Mao etc etc. The recent "election" (or lack there of) of the European President is a step on the way to what you fear, there wasn't very much "of the people, by the people or for the people" about it and at the end of the day liberty comes through a ballot box or the barrel of a gun.
 

Volatire

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Boris's post-Brexit UK will quickly overtake Germany as Europe's largest economy.

At that stage nobody will believe the euro-bullshĂŻt any more. The carefully constructed globalist edifice will have collapsed and the rotting euro-corpse can finally be laid to rest.
 

midlander12

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Brexit is a major mistake.

I hope not but it could end up with the dismantling of the EU, the revival of fascism, the reintroduction of the iron curtain and the UK becoming a virtual 51st state of the US.
Why on earth would it lead to the dismantling of the EU? Clearly there are issues in Europe but none of them are new or anything to do with Brexit. As for the 51st state bit, that's already happened, can't disagree there.
 

shiel

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In the prime time programme tonight an American politician said that it was right to throw the ambassador under a bus. What is Trump going to say when he gets Boris under his wing?

Putin has invaded Ukraine. What is he going to do when he seen the contempt that the UK is showing for the Eastern European former colonies of the Soviet Union?

The fascist parties of continental Europe are really enjoying what the Brexiteers are saying and doing to try to undermine the EU.
 

Cnoc a Leassa

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Excellent program on Mad Cow Disease on BBC Two last evening.

Quote - Mad Cow Disease: The Great British Beef Scandal (BBC Two) explored that question, along with one that now appears almost rhetorical, given the subsequent erosion of faith in those who are meant to govern in our best interests. Namely, how did a public health crisis of such proportions arise out of an industry that should have been scrupulously monitored when raising cattle, providing beef and controlling all links in a particular food supply chain, by a vigilant Ministry of Agriculture? The answers are … not comforting.
......
It (the program) remained lucid and careful as it turned to the future, and started evaluating the evidence that suggests we are due a second wave of cases. Next time, it will be among people with a genetic predisposition towards longer incubation periods than the first patients had. This genetic predisposition is shared by half the British population. There is still no test for whether you are carrying the nvCJD infection. We’ll still have to wait and see what the consequences of saving money on cattle feed will be. End quote

Apart from dealing with a great human tragedy and the potential for a second wave of vCJD deaths given that the very long incubation period of the infectious agent, the program also makes clear that the epidemic was created through greed and political miscalculation.

The program deals a heavy political blow to any idea of Britain being casual about food safety standards. Very relevant to doing a post Brexit deal with US that involves chlorinated chicken and hormone / antibiotic fed beef, etc
 

bactrian

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Boris's post-Brexit UK will quickly overtake Germany as Europe's largest economy.

At that stage nobody will believe the euro-bullshĂŻt any more. The carefully constructed globalist edifice will have collapsed and the rotting euro-corpse can finally be laid to rest.
Volatire please do not troll!
 

shiel

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Boris's post-Brexit UK will quickly overtake Germany as Europe's largest economy.

At that stage nobody will believe the euro-bullshĂŻt any more. The carefully constructed globalist edifice will have collapsed and the rotting euro-corpse can finally be laid to rest.
Eastern Europe will be back behind another iron curtain under Putin or his successors.

Fascism will be the political successor to the present day democracy of the nearly thirty country EU.

The UK will be grovelling to the successors of Trump.

The Brexiteer agenda will have been fulfilled.
 

Cnoc a Leassa

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The anti backstop media advocates are out in force these days – the Irish Government or Leo or Simon or someone else persuaded the EU to put the backstop into the Withdrawal Agreement (WA) so as to ensure the monster called Boris can become UK Prime Minister. If only we would persuade the EU to remove the backstop from the WA, then Brexit is done and dusted.

On the Boris becoming UK PM, it is worth remembering that before the Brexit referendum, Boris wrote two letters to himself, and at the last minute picked the option to join the leave campaign. As Cameron noted at the time, this was a deliberate choice by Boris to further his PM ambitions. In reality, Irish Government policy choices have little to do with the prospect of Boris becoming PM. Blaming us for that possible outcome is misplaced.

Framing the EU land border in Ireland as simply a matter of removing it from the WA is simplistic in the extreme. The backstop provision is a policy option to protect the island economy, north and south, in the event that Britain is unwilling to negotiate a new relationship that meets EU requirements for the single market and regulatory compliance.

A rhetoric of “remove the backstop” without any commentary on how a new land border arrangement will operate is deliberately misleading as to the realities of a post Brexit EU/UK economic and trade relationship. A failure to address the consequence for the island economy from an import of foot and mouth disease, another outbreak of BSE, the import of food adulterated with hormones, antibiotics, pesticides, etc is to close eyes to the risks to the island economy.

To repeat an earlier post on the Johnson Hunt debate on ITV
This 30 sec segment is very short reply to a question by Julie that clearly demonstrates the Boris thinking on the backstop. Its still all about having their cake and eating it.

In reply to question on backstop from Julie, Boris answered...as everybody knows there are an abundant range of solutions including Max Fac.... for checking ......much as in Greg's paper... but away from border, ... everybody understands that that is how to solve the issues of frictionless trade not just with the border with Northern Ireland but all UK EU borders.

Could not be clearer. The party with the greatest interest in having no hard border on the island of Ireland is Boris. The negotiation strategy is still to use the max fac land border as the model for the future EU UK marine border, this being the only way to avoid the heavy hit to their economy that would follow from an EU border model that fully protects the single market and ensures full regulatory compliance.
 

brughahaha

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The highly formidable Gina Miller and her legal team , the Lady who forced Theresa May to grant MPs a vote on Brexit , via the supreme court in 2017 is back in the thick of it.

The supreme upheld Parliamentary Sovereignty and stopped May in her tracks.Now Miller has has threatened Boris with more of the same if he attempts to bypass Parliament in anyway , to achieve a No-Deal.

This is important because there is clearly no overall majority for No Deal and Johnstons only hope of achieving it is by running the clock down by closing down Parliament.

If Miller succeeds then Johnsons plan is in tatters

 

Volatire

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Ireland’s Brexit policy was driven by demented anglophobia and arrogance.

When we needed smart, nimble leaders who understood the British mentality, we did not have any. Instead we had dopes like
Coveney.

Brexit should have been seen for what it is - a technical issue. We made it into a do-or-die issue of national destiny. We have squandered so much political capital on our extremist Brexit posturing that we are fair game for any measures that arrive from the EU. Mercosur, tax etc. Mick will just have to bend over.

At the end of the Brexit process, Ireland have achieved none of our aims, but will still be held In contempt by both the UK and the EU.

Coveney was a terrible mistake, lacking intellect needed at a critical time in our history.
 

bactrian

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Ireland’s Brexit policy was driven by demented anglophobia and arrogance.

When we needed smart, nimble leaders who understood the British mentality, we did not have any. Instead we had dopes like
Coveney.

Brexit should have been seen for what it is - a technical issue. We made it into a do-or-die issue of national destiny. We have squandered so much political capital on our extremist Brexit posturing that we are fair game for any measures that arrive from the EU. Mercosur, tax etc. Mick will just have to bend over.

At the end of the Brexit process, Ireland have achieved none of our aims, but will still be held In contempt by both the UK and the EU.

Coveney was a terrible mistake, lacking intellect needed at a critical time in our history.
Another trolling post from you Volatire.

"Ireland’s Brexit policy was driven by demented anglophobia and arrogance. "

Accuracy is not your forte.
The "Brexit Policy" is an EU policy. We ,in Ireland ,have a great interest in the policy and are vested in protecting it.

"
When we needed smart, nimble leaders who understood the British mentality, we did not have any. Instead we had dopes like
Coveney."


Our political leaders , across all the major parties , have been insightful , clear thinking and focused.

Understanding the "British mentality" has not been hard. They are guilty of wilful ignorance about the North , indifference to the consequences of a Hard Brexit there and in general contemptuous of the Political, Economic, Social and possible Violent results of a No Deal Brexit

In any comparison Simon Coveney is so intellectually superior to Boris Johnson and the slavering Xenophobes promoting Brexit that making the comparison is pointless.


"Brexit should have been seen for what it is - a technical issue. We made it into a do-or-die issue of national destiny. We have squandered so much political capital on our extremist Brexit posturing that we are fair game for any measures that arrive from the EU. Mercosur, tax etc. Mick will just have to bend over. "

A heart attack is a technical issue, it is also serious.

The vast majority of countries support and contributed to the development of the EU policy on Brexit. I would remind you of the remarks made by Donald Tusk regarding "a special place in Hell for those promoting Brexit without the sketch of a plan". If Ireland has expended Political Capital it's extent is negligible.

"At the end of the Brexit process, Ireland have achieved none of our aims, but will still be held In contempt by both the UK and the EU. "

As I have already pointed out the UK already holds Ireland in contempt, and as I have demonstrated above the UK has managed to earn the contempt and derision of the rest of Europe. The UK is the laughing stock of Europe.

"Coveney was a terrible mistake, lacking intellect needed at a critical time in our history. "

When the history books are being written there will be many chapters complementary of Simon Coveney. The same cannot be said about Boris Johnson or his cohort.
 
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HenryHorace

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Mar 22, 2017
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Ireland’s Brexit policy was driven by demented anglophobia and arrogance.

When we needed smart, nimble leaders who understood the British mentality, we did not have any. Instead we had dopes like
Coveney.

Brexit should have been seen for what it is - a technical issue. We made it into a do-or-die issue of national destiny. We have squandered so much political capital on our extremist Brexit posturing that we are fair game for any measures that arrive from the EU. Mercosur, tax etc. Mick will just have to bend over.

At the end of the Brexit process, Ireland have achieved none of our aims, but will still be held In contempt by both the UK and the EU.

Coveney was a terrible mistake, lacking intellect needed at a critical time in our history.
Coveney has been a disaster from day one. The way he has treated our closest neighbour and friend is a disgrace and one we are to pay dearly for for years to come.
 

Strawberry

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Coveney has been a disaster from day one. The way he has treated our closest neighbour and friend is a disgrace and one we are to pay dearly for for years to come.
Against a backdrop of Brexiters openly proposing to bribe or threaten the Irish, sink EU fishing boats "like the Belgrano", and even, ludicrously, proposing to starve Ireland by a naval blockade, you have the cheek to say our Foreign Minister has treated our neighbour disgracefully!

The disgraceful actions have been completely and solely on the British side, as any genuine Irish person knows.
 

silverharp

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Against a backdrop of Brexiters openly proposing to bribe or threaten the Irish, sink EU fishing boats "like the Belgrano", and even, ludicrously, proposing to starve Ireland by a naval blockade, you have the cheek to say our Foreign Minister has treated our neighbour disgracefully!

The disgraceful actions have been completely and solely on the British side, as any genuine Irish person knows.
thats the silliest thing ive read today, so Boris is planning to starve ireland? should we be stocking up with canned goods? :ROFLMAO:
 


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