BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)

shiel

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So there was no IRA or Irb in 1912.
They just miraculously appeared at the Gpo in 1916.
Your lack of knowledge or just plain ignorance and naivety on the legitimate creation of Northern Ireland shows how biased a version of history was taught in Eire schools.
It is you who lack knowledge.

The position of nationalist Ireland in 1912 is as follows.

Everyone from the most pro-British wing of the Irish Party in Westminster to Patrick Pearse, who subsequently became the leader of the rebellion in 1916, were in favour of Home Rule in 1912.

They spoke off Home Rule platforms in 1912 when Liberal Prime Minister Asquith visited Dublin.

The people who advocated violence were Unionists who threatened civil war against an Act of the imperial parliament and advocated a 'provisional government' in Belfast. It is ironic that it was Unionists which used the word provisional first.

In threatening civil war they were expressly backed by Bonar Law and his conservative party.

They imported arms from Germany.

Northern Ireland was formed as a result.

Despite all that in 1998 Nationalist Ireland voted massively to recognise Northern Ireland until a majority wanted a change.

But Brexiteers have torn up that international agreement.

By denying the facts and indulging in racist contempt Brexiteers are doing major damage to relations on these islands and that is not wise.
 
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caledhel

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Tippytop

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The vote limits royal authority. Interesting to see if it'll be contested in court. Can parliament force Johnson to seek an extension?
No they cant, all he has do do is not do anything. The only thing they can do is vote NC but that means all tories and DUP voting for Corbyn government which is extemely unlikely (if labor ditch JC its a remote possibility) but i doubt the people who actually get to vote in labor election would do that. Additionally, no con local party is going to have a candidate that voted down con government so they have to be willing to loose job. Incidentally, i dont think they can compel him to pay 39B either abd assuming he wont pay, then why would EU contemplate extension?
 

Uganda

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No they cant, all he has do do is not do anything. The only thing they can do is vote NC but that means all tories and DUP voting for Corbyn government which is extemely unlikely (if labor ditch JC its a remote possibility) but i doubt the people who actually get to vote in labor election would do that. Additionally, no con local party is going to have a candidate that voted down con government so they have to be willing to loose job. Incidentally, i dont think they can compel him to pay 39B either abd assuming he wont pay, then why would EU contemplate extension?
Well, there could be an interesting situation if a majority of MPs publicly signalled no confidence in Johnson.

When T May lost the election she hightailed it off to the palace claiming she had the support of a majority because of her deal with the DUP. But she actually went to the palace before she had a DUP deal. Rumours now abound that HM was not amused at being hoodwinked.

So what would happen if a majority of MPs signalled they didn't support Johnson. Could/would HM appoint him?

Or if an injunction were taken out in court to prevent an appointment?

Unlikely, but possible.

And ironically the difference would be the Sinn Fein MPs. They could prevent Johnson taking office (or vote him down very shortly after he did).

But they won't.

Mary Lose will do what Mary Lose does best - bellyache, whinge, whine from dawn to dusk. And then blame the Brits, the DUP, the SDLP, FG, FF, Uncle Tom Cobley, Uncle Tom cobleys cat.

They will, as ever, opt out.
 

caledhel

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No they cant, all he has do do is not do anything. The only thing they can do is vote NC but that means all tories and DUP voting for Corbyn government which is extemely unlikely (if labor ditch JC its a remote possibility) but i doubt the people who actually get to vote in labor election would do that. Additionally, no con local party is going to have a candidate that voted down con government so they have to be willing to loose job. Incidentally, i dont think they can compel him to pay 39B either abd assuming he wont pay, then why would EU contemplate extension?
I tend to agree that parliament can't force him to seek an extension although there may be some mechanism it can use.

A general election would be fascinating.

It seems like the Tories have become very taken with the proverb "God watches over drunks and fools" which appears to be the reason Johnson is the natural choice. Whether or not he's a holy one is a bone of contention.

The ratings demand a GE.
 

Uganda

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I tend to agree that parliament can't force him to seek an extension although there may be some mechanism it can use.

A general election would be fascinating.

It seems like the Tories have become very taken with the proverb "God watches over drunks and fools" which appears to be the reason Johnson is the natural choice. Whether or not he's a holy one is a bone of contention.

The ratings demand a GE.
But if Boris has to hold a GE before Brexit, Farrage and co will annihilate the Tories.

Boris main interest is Boris. He won't go to the country pre Brexit.

So if he can't exit on no deal, his only other option is to ensure there is a deal.
 

shiel

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But if Boris has to hold a GE before Brexit, Farrage and co will annihilate the Tories.

Boris main interest is Boris. He won't go to the country pre Brexit.

So if he can't exit on no deal, his only other option is to ensure there is a deal.
There was a deal before racist Brexiteers tore it up and tore up the Good Friday Agreement.

Even after that a deal was negotiated but Brexiteers think it is neither racist nor intolerant enough.
 

AhNowStop

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No they cant, all he has do do is not do anything. The only thing they can do is vote NC but that means all tories and DUP voting for Corbyn government which is extemely unlikely (if labor ditch JC its a remote possibility) but i doubt the people who actually get to vote in labor election would do that. Additionally, no con local party is going to have a candidate that voted down con government so they have to be willing to loose job. Incidentally, i dont think they can compel him to pay 39B either abd assuming he wont pay, then why would EU contemplate extension?
no it doesnt
 

AhNowStop

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Well, there could be an interesting situation if a majority of MPs publicly signalled no confidence in Johnson.

When T May lost the election she hightailed it off to the palace claiming she had the support of a majority because of her deal with the DUP. But she actually went to the palace before she had a DUP deal. Rumours now abound that HM was not amused at being hoodwinked.

So what would happen if a majority of MPs signalled they didn't support Johnson. Could/would HM appoint him?

Or if an injunction were taken out in court to prevent an appointment?

Unlikely, but possible.

And ironically the difference would be the Sinn Fein MPs. They could prevent Johnson taking office (or vote him down very shortly after he did).

But they won't.

Mary Lose will do what Mary Lose does best - bellyache, whinge, whine from dawn to dusk. And then blame the Brits, the DUP, the SDLP, FG, FF, Uncle Tom Cobley, Uncle Tom cobleys cat.

They will, as ever, opt out.
Utter dross .. the second a single shinner set foot in the HOC the vote would be immediately galvanised against what ever SF wanted ....

its completely ludicrous &/or duplicitous to deny this
 

AhNowStop

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But if Boris has to hold a GE before Brexit, Farrage and co will annihilate the Tories.

Boris main interest is Boris. He won't go to the country pre Brexit.

So if he can't exit on no deal, his only other option is to ensure there is a deal.
DUP beware ;)
 

RasherHash

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It is you who lack knowledge.

The position of nationalist Ireland in 1912 is as follows.

Everyone from the most pro-British wing of the Irish Party in Westminster to Patrick Pearse, who subsequently became the leader of the rebellion in 1916, were in favour of Home Rule in 1912.

They spoke off Home Rule platforms in 1912 when Liberal Prime Minister Asquith visited Dublin.

The people who advocated violence were Unionists who threatened civil war against an Act of the imperial parliament and advocated a 'provisional government' in Belfast. It is ironic that it was Unionists which used the word provisional first.

In threatening civil war they were expressly backed by Bonar Law and his conservative party.

They imported arms from Germany.

Northern Ireland was formed as a result.

Despite all that in 1998 Nationalist Ireland voted massively to recognise Northern Ireland until a majority wanted a change.

But Brexiteers have torn up that international agreement.

By denying the facts and indulging in racist contempt Brexiteers are doing major damage to relations on these islands and that is not wise.
Pearse said he would not have favoured a Rising if HR had been implemented.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Seems logical. Home Rule would have been seen as an essential stepping stone to outright independence.

Few in Ireland interested in the subject would have seen it as anything else.
 

death or glory

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Seems logical. Home Rule would have been seen as an essential stepping stone to outright independence.

Few in Ireland interested in the subject would have seen it as anything else.
As it turned out to be the case for Eire.
It was entirely legitimate for the British people of Ulster to set up Northern Ireland, just.like it is entirely legitimate and reasonable for us British people to leave the EU.
 

death or glory

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Utter dross .. the second a single shinner set foot in the HOC the vote would be immediately galvanised against what ever SF wanted ....

its completely ludicrous &/or duplicitous to deny this
You think the whole British parliament would conspire against SF.
My oh my,
You do have delusions of adequacy.

But of course a man who abhors violence wouldn't support a party with Terrorists in it who are controlled by the IRA army council.
 

AhNowStop

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You think the whole British parliament would conspire against SF.
My oh my,
You do have delusions of adequacy.

But of course a man who abhors violence wouldn't support a party with Terrorists in it who are controlled by the IRA army council.
;)

good job I dont they eh dopey

Oh and the point re SF going to the HOC stands .. It would galvanise support in the other direction ..... But dont worry dopey, I wouldn't expect a cretinous bigot like you to get it

btw - good man for your helpful posts on the other thread which clearly outline that the OO is completely sectarian while the GAA is not ... ;) you really are a top class numpty 😅
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
As it turned out to be the case for Eire.
It was entirely legitimate for the British people of Ulster to set up Northern Ireland, just.like it is entirely legitimate and reasonable for us British people to leave the EU.
Well if the British people are happy to dismantle the union, far be it from us humble country folk to interrupt the machine-gunning of the feet.

It will be interesting watching the Eton Rifles attacking the union up-hill while trying to persuade everyone in sight that this equates to restoring an Empire that was sold off between 1942 and the 1960s.

But sure thanks for all the fish.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Perhaps the Terreblanche plan might work. Eugene Terreblanche was the South African Trump, and as a last gasp attempted to set up a white enclave in the Orange Free State.

He was going to set up the new white South African empire or at least restore it, I recall.

All declining political influences become grandiose before reality finally bites.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
There could be a last bastion in Dorset or somewhere. Enid Blyton was no fool and knew her market :)
 


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