BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)

Ireniall

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The UK Brexit Secretary Steven Barclay has said on "Sophie Ridge" on Sky News that 40% of Irish exports go through the port of Dover.

That raises concerns about potential loss of the UK-land bridge for Irish exports to Mainland Europe.
It certainly does. Furthermore if Macron decides to squeeze Calais after a no-deal bust up then Irish exports through Britain become a target. Even without this element the chaos at the eastern UK ports will be a problem on its own. I heard recently that 150 Irish trucks use the land bridge every day but the increased ferry capacity recently introduced will cater for sixty of them leaving a shortfall of 90. It doesn't sound insurmountable but it will be a serious short term problem

Further to my suggestion for having a referendum in NI on the backstop I think that the prospect of us having to stop and inspect NI lorries in the event of a crash out means that we are morally obliged to give them a choice about it. It is bound to cause resentment if we have to make NI trucks wait in long queues in order to board our ferries to Europe not to mention some even more serious controls. At least if there is a referendum it is something which they will have had some say over themselves.

It has a lot of other serious advantages to it. As has already been pointed out here Boris will be desperately seeking an agreement with the EU in the highly likely event that a passage to no-deal is blocked by parliament. If he goes to Brussels and the Irish side allow the EU to agree that the Backstop is to be decided by referendum in the north Boris can return to London triumphant with having effectively removed the backstop if the people in NI want it.

This lets Britain off the hook and will allow those people for whom the backstop was the sticking point to vote wholeheartedly for the deal. It's not that I think that there were that many of them but I think that with a no-deal closed off hard Brexiteers will accept it with a view to negotiating as hard a future relationship as the deal allows. The beauty of it is that they would not need an extension as the deal would be fully agreed with the final destination of NI the only decision left to make with two clear cut routes to take depending on the result of the referendum which would not hold the process from carrying on in the meantime

The DUP will hate it like they hate everything but in fact it gives them something of a ladder to climb down as well as there is every danger that it might be simply agreed above their heads anyway and at least this way they can be seen to be campaigning vociferously against the backstop and can blame Fenians and Lundies to their own supporters for keeping it if they fail to win the referendum. For these people I feel that a vote for the backstop or even a very close result which fell for its removal might serve as a wake up call which fell short of the kind of consequences that a Border Poll would bring and perhaps start a process in the DUP which might result in their sowing some better seeds in time for the change over to when they are a minority

I should have said that I am talking about the NI only backstop rather than the whole UK one so that if the DUP fail to win the referendum then NI stays in the CU and SM after Brexit while Britain is free to leave. For CNRs this would give them perhaps their first chance to have a direct input on the future of NI. While the vote will split largely along sectarian lines I suspect that at the edges of each community there will be a lot of deviation from traditional voting patterns and I would expect this to fall in favour of the Backstop making this a very winnable referendum for either side.

Finally for the Irish government there is probably little enough to be gained other than the merit of doing the right thing. Obviously if the backstop was voted down in the north then its use as a pushing force on Britain towards a soft Brexit or indeed no Brexit would be lost with all of the implications for trade with Britain that this would bring. It would be useful for FG to dodge the current concerted campaign against them by the Independent group in particular though what's the betting that Harris and others would complain about the referendum being a sectarian bun fight which if won by the supporters of the backstop will be represented as a cunning green plan to subvert the Union with a shameless 50%+1 or near it.
 


Tippytop

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You'll doubtless not forgive me if I treat your reply with a large amount of scepticism.

I've worked here for over two decades in a variety of businesses including financial institutions and seem-states. I have worked at a senior level in positions where the use of English was unthinkable.

I suspect that know next to sod all about the French culture and that by living there you really meant that you spent two sweaty nights in a flop house in Montparnasse and conjured up enough sign language to be able to order a drink which didn't match your order.

In short, you are speaking BS. I have been here a long time and have worked on contracts in major companies. How long where you there? Which companies?

The French are inordinately proud of and protective of their language. I have never received a contract without first going through an interview process conducted entirely in French. All projects I worked on in France were conducted (documentation, project plans, meetings, con-calls etc) in French. *Some* people would have English, but it was not used professionally.
Alstom
 

death or glory

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Leaving does not have to involve declaring economic war, re-imposing the border and tearing up the GFA
They are just some of the benefits.
 

death or glory

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Keep it up.

You are doing a marvellous job highlighting the basic motivation of the Brexiteers.
And likewise old chappie,
You are doing a great job highlighting the inadequacies, bitterness and mopery of the Oirish.
 

Dame_Enda

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Coveney may have let the cat out of the bag yesterday on Andrew Marr's show. He said that checks would have to occur in the event of a no deal Brexit but not on the border but somewhere else. Tory Brexiteers are now asking why not include this in a replacement for the backstop in the withdrawal deal.
 

Cnoc a Leassa

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The expectation of the Tory faithful that Boris will deliver a “great Brexit deal” by following the Frank Carson style of comedy "It's the way I tell 'em!" as his only negotiation tactic seems badly misplaced.

Fairly brutal analysis of what awaits UK with Boris Johnson as Prime Minister

The opening paragraph is a harsh commentary on his leadership style. Quote - Boris Johnson, to whom lying comes as easily as breathing, is on the verge of becoming prime minister. He faces the most complex and intractable political crisis to affect Britain since 1945. That should be concerning enough. But given Britain’s political system — which relies for its maintenance on the character and disposition of the prime minister — it carries even graver import. Mr. Johnson, whose laziness is proverbial and opportunism legendary, is a man well-practiced in deceit, a pander willing to tickle the prejudices of his audience for easy gain. His personal life is incontinent, his public record inconsequential. And his premiership could bring about the end of Britain itself.

The concluding paragraph adds further to the negative outlook. Quote - Reality will prove unavoidable on Oct. 31, however Mr. Johnson bluffs. Predictions about Brexit generally assume too much stability in the status quo; Mr. Johnson’s slipperiness makes it harder still to predict. Tackling Britain’s deep divisions requires depth of character, conviction and principle, none of which its incoming prime minister has ever hinted at possessing. End Quote
 

shiel

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And likewise old chappie,
You are doing a great job highlighting the inadequacies, bitterness and mopery of the Oirish.
Just stating the facts in relation to Brexit and the Brexiteers.

The vote for Brexit is a very significant historical occurrence.

It is a vote to tear up an agreement signed with nearly thirty European democracies in a continent with a history of conflict. That agreement involved cooperating in matters of mutual interest including a customs union and the freedom of movement of people.

Brexit is also a vote to tear up the Good Friday Agreement which the UK signed with a former colony. That agreement drew a line under centuries of colonial rule and resulted in an open border.

Brexit is, therefore, essentially a declaration of economic war on fellow Europeans and a statement of contempt for Paddy.
 

death or glory

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Just stating the facts in relation to Brexit and the Brexiteers.

The vote for Brexit is a very significant historical occurrence.

It is a vote to tear up an agreement signed with nearly thirty European democracies in a continent with a history of conflict. That agreement involved cooperating in matters of mutual interest including a customs union and the freedom of movement of people.

Brexit is also a vote to tear up the Good Friday Agreement which the UK signed with a former colony. That agreement drew a line under centuries of colonial rule and resulted in an open border.

Brexit is, therefore, essentially a declaration of economic war on fellow Europeans and a statement of contempt for Paddy.
Well summed up.

And like the vast majority of all wars the British have been part off,
We will end up on the winning side.
That's the benefit of having a winning mentality but youse are welcome to wallow in self pity and whine constantly.
 

McSlaggart

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Coveney may have let the cat out of the bag yesterday on Andrew Marr's show. He said that checks would have to occur in the event of a no deal Brexit but not on the border but somewhere else. Tory Brexiteers are now asking why not include this in a replacement for the backstop in the withdrawal deal.

This would only happen if the UK crashed out. It is for Ireland a least worst option.

What the British want is for them to have the best of all worlds and the Irish economy to badly suffer because of their actions.
 

cytex

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Coveney may have let the cat out of the bag yesterday on Andrew Marr's show. He said that checks would have to occur in the event of a no deal Brexit but not on the border but somewhere else. Tory Brexiteers are now asking why not include this in a replacement for the backstop in the withdrawal deal.
Because it is not a replacement it effectivley means Ireland has to be cut off from the european markets and our economy suffers . It is Effectivley taking Ireland out of the single market and aligning ourselves with the British Custom Union. Not Ideal for Ireland at all.
 

CatullusV

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Because it is not a replacement it effectivley means Ireland has to be cut off from the european markets and our economy suffers . It is Effectivley taking Ireland out of the single market and aligning ourselves with the British Custom Union. Not Ideal for Ireland at all.
It is doing nothing of the sort.
 

cytex

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It is doing nothing of the sort.
What is doing nothing of the sort ? Doing custom checks in the ports of goods going to and from Europe Makes our goods more expensive we are then effectively a third country.
 

shiel

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Well summed up.

And like the vast majority of all wars the British have been part off,
We will end up on the winning side.
That's the benefit of having a winning mentality but youse are welcome to wallow in self pity and whine constantly.
Thanks for agreeing that Brexit is a declaration of war and a declaration of contempt for Paddy.

As we have established that we know what the appropriate action should be.
 

Ireniall

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The expectation of the Tory faithful that Boris will deliver a “great Brexit deal” by following the Frank Carson style of comedy "It's the way I tell 'em!" as his only negotiation tactic seems badly misplaced.

Fairly brutal analysis of what awaits UK with Boris Johnson as Prime Minister

The opening paragraph is a harsh commentary on his leadership style. Quote - Boris Johnson, to whom lying comes as easily as breathing, is on the verge of becoming prime minister. He faces the most complex and intractable political crisis to affect Britain since 1945. That should be concerning enough. But given Britain’s political system — which relies for its maintenance on the character and disposition of the prime minister — it carries even graver import. Mr. Johnson, whose laziness is proverbial and opportunism legendary, is a man well-practiced in deceit, a pander willing to tickle the prejudices of his audience for easy gain. His personal life is incontinent, his public record inconsequential. And his premiership could bring about the end of Britain itself.

The concluding paragraph adds further to the negative outlook. Quote - Reality will prove unavoidable on Oct. 31, however Mr. Johnson bluffs. Predictions about Brexit generally assume too much stability in the status quo; Mr. Johnson’s slipperiness makes it harder still to predict. Tackling Britain’s deep divisions requires depth of character, conviction and principle, none of which its incoming prime minister has ever hinted at possessing. End Quote
Very well written and to me absolutely accurate about the oaf Johnson
 

death or glory

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Along with nice chlorinated chicken for you guys. Are ye going to Morris dancing classes yet?
Sure you'll be eating hormone injected beef from Argentina.
No we'll just stick to the good auld highland dancing, as part of our British culture.
 


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