BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)

livingstone

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Everybody knows there are checks on animals transported from the mainland, it is on all news coverage that shows a dept official shining a torch through a cattle lorry to look at stock.
I never claimed different because I only chat on subjects I actually know about unlike some who spout on as if they are knowledgeable but actually know SFA.
So how can you claim i didn't read my own link, when it proves my position.
It's looking like youse deserve the backstop and enforcing the border.
You claiming the status quo amounts to 'border checks' shows you don't understand the status quo.

But at least you lot have moved from denying there will be any need for border checks, to accepting there will be but claiming (incorrectly) that they are the same as existing requirements for animal health under EU law.
 


Sync

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That’s fake news. Allegedly.
Also worth pointing out that this isn’t a Dem vs GOP issue. Pete King said the same thing as Pelosi.

Trump cares about different things to Congress. Congress really only care about reelection. And 1 in 10 Americans identify as Irish, and they vote.

So that’s why the US turned a blind eye to US money going to the IRA, why the Taoiseach meets the US president every year, why the US pumped millions into helping to implement the GFA. And it’s why congress isn’t going to give the U.K. anything if they don’t get the border issue right to the extent that it shuts up Irish American voters.
 

Dame_Enda

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We're fortunate FG weren't handling the GFA negotiations because with this megaphone-type diplomacy it would certainly have collapsed. They ignored NI for years and only notice it when they want to use it to frustrate Brexit. I don't recall them making much of an effort to restore powersharing until very recently.
 

Splodge

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We're fortunate FG weren't handling the GFA negotiations because with this megaphone-type diplomacy it would certainly have collapsed. They ignored NI for years and only notice it when they want to use it to frustrate Brexit. I don't recall them making much of an effort to restore powersharing until very recently.
Sweet suffering Jesus.
 

Paddyc

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Also worth pointing out that this isn’t a Dem vs GOP issue. Pete King said the same thing as Pelosi.

Trump cares about different things to Congress. Congress really only care about reelection. And 1 in 10 Americans identify as Irish, and they vote.

So that’s why the US turned a blind eye to US money going to the IRA, why the Taoiseach meets the US president every year, why the US pumped millions into helping to implement the GFA. And it’s why congress isn’t going to give the U.K. anything if they don’t get the border issue right to the extent that it shuts up Irish American voters.
They didn't really. They went after NORAID and the IRA gun smugglers. In any event, the amount of money coming from America was greatly over stated.

As for the rest of it, yes. In terms of votes, Irish America, no matter how distant, is still more important than the UK.
 

livingstone

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We're fortunate FG weren't handling the GFA negotiations because with this megaphone-type diplomacy it would certainly have collapsed. They ignored NI for years and only notice it when they want to use it to frustrate Brexit. I don't recall them making much of an effort to restore powersharing until very recently.
Then you don't remember much. There have been a number of attempts to restore power sharing over the past couple of years.
 

Cnoc a Leassa

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Pressure seems to be getting to Boris, link EU and MPs collaborating to block Brexit - Johnson - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said some MPs hoping to block Brexit were engaged in "terrible" collaboration with the European Union by undermining the British government's negotiating hand and so making no-deal more likely.

May as PM, as far as I remember, never reached for such odious public references for her fellow party members as they opposed and frustrated her Brexit plan. Castigating political opponents is one thing but to publicly frame them as traitors is red flag that that things are already moving out of control.
 

petaljam

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Also worth pointing out that this isn’t a Dem vs GOP issue. Pete King said the same thing as Pelosi.
Being discussed now on BBC radio 4 news, apparently to the journalists' great shock. Who could have imagined that America would care enough about the Irish to get involved, seems to be the (UK media) consensus. The British are obviously far more important.
 

petaljam

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Everybody knows there are checks on animals transported from the mainland, it is on all news coverage that shows a dept official shining a torch through a cattle lorry to look at stock.
I never claimed different because I only chat on subjects I actually know about unlike some who spout on as if they are knowledgeable but actually know SFA.
So how can you claim i didn't read my own link, when it proves my position.
It's looking like youse deserve the backstop and enforcing the border.
I didn't say you didn't read it, I'm just saying that the checks you're talking about are for internal EU movement, and even internal within the UK. So presumably nothing like importing/exporting to or from the US, say.

Either that or there already is a border in the Irish Sea.
 

death or glory

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I didn't say you didn't read it, I'm just saying that the checks you're talking about are for internal EU movement, and even internal within the UK. So presumably nothing like importing/exporting to or from the US, say.

Either that or there already is a border in the Irish Sea.
Yes that's exactly what I was saying, there already checks for exporting livestock across the border presently. That was the whole argument whereas the numpty was saying there was no checks.
As can be seen already, is that there does not have to be a hard border in order to have goods or livestock checked.
 

death or glory

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You claiming the status quo amounts to 'border checks' shows you don't understand the status quo.

But at least you lot have moved from denying there will be any need for border checks, to accepting there will be but claiming (incorrectly) that they are the same as existing requirements for animal health under EU law.
Them goalposts of yours move very fast.

The best thing about beating you is that you keep coming back for more.
A hint for the future, when you're in a hole stop digging.

DOG 3 - Livingstone 0
They think it's all over,
It is now.
 

Ireniall

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Yes that's exactly what I was saying, there already checks for exporting livestock across the border presently. That was the whole argument whereas the numpty was saying there was no checks.
As can be seen already, is that there does not have to be a hard border in order to have goods or livestock checked.
Of course she is right . There are checks on livestock and equipment between Britain and NI
 

death or glory

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They’re talking nonsense. They’re talking about restrictions on transportation of animals. The verification requirements don’t apply to farmers moving animals less than 65km and doesn’t apply to animals wandering from one field to another. That law certainly doesn’t require animal health testing before export and definitely doesn’t impose checks at the border.
Cough, cough.
 

death or glory

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Right. So we can dismiss that then since you’ve not bothered to inform yourself.

So we’re back to the question I asked:

- since technology can’t check a cow for disease, without the backstop how do you avoid checks at the border.
Cough, cough.
 

Ireniall

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I didn't say you didn't read it, I'm just saying that the checks you're talking about are for internal EU movement, and even internal within the UK. So presumably nothing like importing/exporting to or from the US, say.

Either that or there already is a border in the Irish Sea.
There is a border in the Irish Sea.
 

petaljam

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Yes that's exactly what I was saying, there already checks for exporting livestock across the border presently. That was the whole argument whereas the numpty was saying there was no checks.
As can be seen already, is that there does not have to be a hard border in order to have goods or livestock checked.
You're missing the fact that those are internal checks, since they also apply to stock being moved to England or Scotland. They're not comparable to the level of checks required for exporting to a non-EU country.
 

death or glory

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You're missing the fact that those are internal checks, since they also apply to stock being moved to England or Scotland. They're not comparable to the level of checks required for exporting to a non-EU country.
What extra checks are you chatting about.
Are you inferring these non defined checks could not be carried out in the approved centres that are currently used for the border inspections.

The fact remains that animals are currently checked before they cross over the border so after 1st November there will still need to be checked, that is the basic facts, no amount of twisting and knit picking will change that
 

petaljam

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What extra checks are you chatting about.
Are you inferring these non defined checks could not be carried out in the approved centres that are currently used for the border inspections.

The fact remains that animals are currently checked before they cross over the border so after 1st November there will still need to be checked, that is the basic facts, no amount of twisting and knit picking will change that
I'm not sure there's any point in trying to explain any more. If you think you have "won" a debate by repeatedly ignoring a gaping flaw in your argument, well, good for you.
 

death or glory

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I'm not sure there's any point in trying to explain any more. If you think you have "won" a debate by repeatedly ignoring a gaping flaw in your argument, well, good for you.
There is no flaw in my argument. the current border checks are "internal" yet on the 1st November presumably the border checks will become "external" and yet you are claiming that they will become completely different without any evidence or reasoning to back this up.

I have just stated the facts that currently there are border inspections for livestock without a hard border and after the 1st November there will still be border inspections.
 


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