BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)



galteeman

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Irish votes? In the North East mainly,and they are blue anyway so who cares? you don't even get your own drop down box any more, you are not hispanic, african american or native american. You are living in the past.
Actually Irish Americans vote about 50/50 these days and are considered important enough to make sure all the presidential candidates recently had Irish American running mates.
 

Mickeymac

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Actually Irish Americans vote about 50/50 these days and are considered important enough to make sure all the presidential candidates recently had Irish American running mates.

Have not done all 50 states, but, most where I have had overnight stay, there was always an Irish connection, be it, people, arts, place names etc.
 

Newrybhoy

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Looking at the language being used by the GOP and the Dems, that could only be the case if the EU were forcing the UK to leave the EU.

The trigger event is Brexit. The UK is the party pushing that. They need to come up with the solution to the GOP and Dem’s satisfaction that any changes won’t jeopardise the GFA.

And the UK can try and persuade Pelosi and the GOP and Dem Congress members dependent on Irish votes to stay employed that it’s all Ireland’s fault. Best of luck with that.
The Trump govt are more than happy that the UK is seeking its independence.

Given the US economy is slowing down, a shiny new trade deal with the Worlds fifth biggest economy must look quite appealing.

The UK has repeatedly said it won't enforce a hard border so it will be the EU and indeed the RoI who are in breach of the GFA.
 

Ireniall

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Irish votes? In the North East mainly,and they are blue anyway so who cares? you don't even get your own drop down box any more, you are not hispanic, african american or native american. You are living in the past.
I suspect that you are right about that but wrong about the big picture. The great axis of this world is between America and Europe and your utterly ignorant president has no appreciation of this. When those who follow in his footsteps have to deal with China dominating the western Pacific with mere aircraft carriers in opposition they may lament the loss of the solidity of the European Alliance however apparently weak Europe looks right now in its formative decades.

The UK was , of course, absolutely central to this but part of the infantile Brexiteer miscalculation of this whole situation is their failure to understand what a central role their own country played. They crave importance for the UK but being essentially the creation of a mindless tabloid press they cannot recognise it unless it comes with flamboyant gestures of supplicancy. So now we have all to settle for a distant second best.

Those who follow Trump as PotUS will realise that what they need is not some autistic de facto fifty-first state but a robust ally who plays an active role in furthering western interests in their own part of the world freeing US power to concentrate where it is needed most. The UK is now virtually irrelevant and unless wiser heads prevail in Washington we could be seeing the start of the decline of US influence in Europe. But there are already signs that this is well understood in parts of the US though the president apparently thinks that Brexit offers a 'great' opportunity to do a 'great' trade deal. ffs
 

Mickeymac

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The Trump govt are more than happy that the UK is seeking its independence.

Given the US economy is slowing down, a shiny new trade deal with the Worlds fifth biggest economy must look quite appealing.

The UK has repeatedly said it won't enforce a hard border so it will be the EU and indeed the RoI who are in breach of the GFA.


You do realise of course this is your third entry for funniest post of 2019? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
 

Newrybhoy

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I suspect that you are right about that but wrong about the big picture. The great axis of this world is between America and Europe and your utterly ignorant president has no appreciation of this. When those who follow in his footsteps have to deal with China dominating the western Pacific with mere aircraft carriers in opposition they may lament the loss of the solidity of the European Alliance however apparently weak Europe looks right now in its formative decades.

The UK was , of course, absolutely central to this but part of the infantile Brexiteer miscalculation of this whole situation is their failure to understand what a central role their own country played. They crave importance for the UK but being essentially the creation of a mindless tabloid press they cannot recognise it unless it comes with flamboyant gestures of supplicancy. So now we have all to settle for a distant second best.

Those who follow Trump as PotUS will realise that what they need is not some autistic de facto fifty-first state but a robust ally who plays an active role in furthering western interests in their own part of the world freeing US power to concentrate where it is needed most. The UK is now virtually irrelevant and unless wiser heads prevail in Washington we could be seeing the start of the decline of US influence in Europe. But there are already signs that this is well understood in parts of the US though the president apparently thinks that Brexit offers a 'great' opportunity to do a 'great' trade deal. ffs
If the UK is "virtually irrelevant" despite being the Worlds 5th largest economy one of the most important militarily and a permanent member of the Security Council, complete with veto,what does that leave Ireland?
 

Mickeymac

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It's funny how you used to be a great GOP supporter and now you pretend that you weren't.

How many Catholic Presidents have there been again?

And what happened him?

Look pal, your lies and false accusations have become rather boring, no wish to put you on ignore, but you are certainly heading in that direction.
 

firefly123

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The Trump govt are more than happy that the UK is seeking its independence.

Given the US economy is slowing down, a shiny new trade deal with the Worlds fifth biggest economy must look quite appealing.

The UK has repeatedly said it won't enforce a hard border so it will be the EU and indeed the RoI who are in breach of the GFA.
If the UK don't impose a border with the EU why would the US need a trade deal at all? Most favoured nation status kicks in and the US can have equal access under WTO rules.
 

Sync

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The Trump govt are more than happy that the UK is seeking its independence.
Absolutely. As are China. It shrinks the EU’s power, consolidating their own position as the top 2.

Given the US economy is slowing down, a shiny new trade deal with the Worlds fifth biggest economy must look quite appealing.
Which is why the US has been so soft in their negotiations with China and Canada in existing deals and the EU on the draft industrial deal.

The UK has repeatedly said it won't enforce a hard border so it will be the EU and indeed the RoI who are in breach of the GFA.
Mexico repeatedly made very reasonable points about migration and its role in car manufacturing, China made points about the incongruity of the US simultaneously saying huwei was both a massive security risk and an issue for trade discussions. Who cared about the merits of those arguments? No one. Because the right answer to any trade discussion is “whatever the larger partner thinks is true”.

The US congress believes no deal brexit jeopardises the GFA and has been clear for a year that the border issue needs to be sorted if there’s to be a free trade deal. Arguing the merits of that position with them isn’t going to alter that.

It’s crazy to think that in a presidential election year 2020 that any candidate is going to do something to hack off 10% of voters or that the US is going to give much to an economy that’s already going to let it send 87% of products into it tariff free.
 

Newrybhoy

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Absolutely. As are China. It shrinks the EU’s power, consolidating their own position as the top 2.



Which is why the US has been so soft in their negotiations with China and Canada in existing deals and the EU on the draft industrial deal.



Mexico repeatedly made very reasonable points about migration and its role in car manufacturing, China made points about the incongruity of the US simultaneously saying huwei was both a massive security risk and an issue for trade discussions. Who cared about the merits of those arguments? No one. Because the right answer to any trade discussion is “whatever the larger partner thinks is true”.

The US congress believes no deal brexit jeopardises the GFA and has been clear for a year that the border issue needs to be sorted if there’s to be a free trade deal. Arguing the merits of that position with them isn’t going to alter that.

It’s crazy to think that in a presidential election year 2020 that any candidate is going to do something to hack off 10% of voters or that the US is going to give much to an economy that’s already going to let it send 87% of products into it tariff free.
We will have to see if the free will of the people of the UK is to be trumped by the dictats of the EU and now the US Congress.

If the US Congress is so concerned about the integrity of the GFA, their silence on SF/IRAs poroguing of it, is deafening.
 

WayOutWest

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Much has been made of the relationship between the main Brexiteers campaigners ( Farage and Johnson) and Trump but if a US/UK trade deal is not possible surely that will seriously impact on the claims and hopes of Brexiteers of making Britain 'great again'
A no deal exit from the EU was always going to be challenging and according to others disastrous. In the absence of U.K./US trade deal the challenges and disasters would be multiplied.
 

brughahaha

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It’s crazy to think that in a presidential election year 2020 that any candidate is going to do something to hack off 10% of voters or that the US is going to give much to an economy that’s already going to let it send 87% of products into it tariff free.

Nearly as crazy as to believe the Dems will oppose a trade deal with the worlds 5th largest economy during a Presidential campaign.
Trump will just hit them with being more interested in policing the world than ensuring jobs and prosperity for Americans..whereas he only cares for Americans ....just like he did very successfully last time.
 

death or glory

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Much has been made of the relationship between the main Brexiteers campaigners ( Farage and Johnson) and Trump but if a US/UK trade deal is not possible surely that will seriously impact on the claims and hopes of Brexiteers of making Britain 'great again'
A no deal exit from the EU was always going to be challenging and according to others disastrous. In the absence of U.K./US trade deal the challenges and disasters would be multiplied.
Who says a US/UK trade deal is not possible?
Nobody likes change but at this stage I'm willing to take my chances.
 

Sync

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Nearly as crazy as to believe the Dems will oppose a trade deal with the worlds 5th largest economy during a Presidential campaign.
Trump will just hit them with being more interested in policing the world than ensuring jobs and prosperity for Americans..whereas he only cares for Americans ....just like he did very successfully last time.
You keep saying the Dems, that doesn’t make it true. The GOP members of the Irish group are very clear as well.

I get the need to glom on to any ray of light possible, but Trump’s words and actions on trade deals are very very different.

Trade deals are difficult. They take years, not months. And they always always always favour the stronger party. And again: the US has no pressure because they can export 87% of goods tariff free while still tariffing UK goods.

What’s the better deal the UK can offer? What would those terms be?
 


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