BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)



Ireniall

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I'm pretty sure the EU would dislike Farage far more than Johnson. Farage was on EU expenses. I think Berlin and Paris regard Johnson as a buffoon on a distraction strategy waving the union jack and in reality making the UK effectively more of a US satrapy off the coast of Europe than it had been since the end of WWII.

The EU in the shape of Berlin and Paris can afford to wait for the inevitable to happen in the UK. When the Emperor is revealed as someone who spaffs and hopes rather than attending to detail and the 17.4 million Leave voters start wondering where the implied improvements in their lives and conditions are then Berlin and Paris can put Westminster to the sword.

I think the UK ultimately will be forced into rejoining the EU single market, albeit probably slightly disguised in order to spare blushes. Hard to envisage now but then the UK voting to leave the EU was pretty hard to envisage only five years ago in 2015.
Yes. This might happen. They should not be allowed back into the EU proper. Let them stay in EFTA or something like that. They've essentially tried to bring the whole EU down and should not be at the centre of things again. There is too much going on with them and it makes them poor allies.
 

Dearghoul

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The point its trying to make. You do like jumping in with both wellies.
Are you having some kind of comprehension difficulties.

It's a perfectly clear statement, there are verbs, nouns, subject, predicate, object and whatnot.

Would you like some assistance with it?
 

Lord Talbot

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Are you having some kind of comprehension difficulties.

It's a perfectly clear statement, there are verbs, nouns, subject, predicate, object and whatnot.

Would you like some assistance with it?
What ARE you babbling on about?
 

parentheses

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More than theoretically - that's why a referendum result is binding in Ireland but not in the UK.
And yet it was the UK who treated their referendum result as binding. In Ireland referendums get voted on a second time if the establishment don't like the first result.
 

Ireniall

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And yet it was the UK who treated their referendum result as binding. In Ireland referendums get voted on a second time if the establishment don't like the first result.
That is what happens in mature countries who are used to referendums and don't get hung up on having to have another one. In an EU referendum the people are asked to endorse the work carried out by the people that they voted into power. If the people decide to reject the decisions it is they who have brought about a conflicting situation which by any normal standards requires another referendum to clarify.
 

Dearghoul

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And yet it was the UK who treated their referendum result as binding. In Ireland referendums get voted on a second time if the establishment don't like the first result.
And if the subject matter is changed in any detail. The idea of making the advisory Brexit referendum anything other than advisory was a bit of a novelty.
 

Sidewindered

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They just don't understand referenda, the Brits. Not Got A Clue.

I know a few Brit immigrants over here in NZ (or "ex-pats" as they continue to like to call themselves, I always think it sounds silly)

So the topic came up a lot in recent years for the Brexit Referendum and also for our own the SSM and Repeal The 8th referenda which they had, oddly, a lot of interest in. Trying to explain how there's a Constitutional Convention that convenes every once in a while to have a look if the old bird needs polished up a bit...so that leads to trying to explain to them the whole idea of a Written Constitution in the first place which they simply cannot get their heads around...then we get back to the govt deciding what Convention recommendations to proceed with, the Citizen's Assembly to hear views from a wide cross-section of society, the Referendum Commission to ensure balanced media coverage, the legislation that will give effect to the change being published in advance...

Boggled their little minds, every bit of it. Did not compute.

Now in fairness we only do referenda this way these days because we've learned the hard way the damage and complete mess you can get yourself into with a knee-jerk one-liner being voted in on emotion and myths rather than sober facts (the 8th itself being the prime example). And doubtless we still have things to learn and improve.

But when it comes to having a referendum, Ireland is now driving a comfortable executive sedan (an Audi A6 or an E-class Merc, say) while the British are still struggling mightily with the concept of a wheel.

Don't even attempt to try to explain PR-STV to them
 

Splodge

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They just don't understand referenda, the Brits. Not Got A Clue.

I know a few Brit immigrants over here in NZ (or "ex-pats" as they continue to like to call themselves, I always think it sounds silly)

So the topic came up a lot in recent years for the Brexit Referendum and also for our own the SSM and Repeal The 8th referenda which they had, oddly, a lot of interest in. Trying to explain how there's a Constitutional Convention that convenes every once in a while to have a look if the old bird needs polished up a bit...so that leads to trying to explain to them the whole idea of a Written Constitution in the first place which they simply cannot get their heads around...then we get back to the govt deciding what Convention recommendations to proceed with, the Citizen's Assembly to hear views from a wide cross-section of society, the Referendum Commission to ensure balanced media coverage, the legislation that will give effect to the change being published in advance...

Boggled their little minds, every bit of it. Did not compute.

Now in fairness we only do referenda this way these days because we've learned the hard way the damage and complete mess you can get yourself into with a knee-jerk one-liner being voted in on emotion and myths rather than sober facts (the 8th itself being the prime example). And doubtless we still have things to learn and improve.

But when it comes to having a referendum, Ireland is now driving a comfortable executive sedan (an Audi A6 or an E-class Merc, say) while the British are still struggling mightily with the concept of a wheel.

Don't even attempt to try to explain PR-STV to them
Nail on the head yet again .
 

Sync

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Elphicke, suspended for allegedly harassing women in their workplace has been allowed back for one night only so he can harass a woman in her workplace.

Convicted of assaulting 2 women.

The former Conservative MP Charlie Elphicke has been found guilty of three counts of sexual assault against two women.

The father-of-two, who represented the Kent constituency of Dover and Deal from 2010 until last year, had denied the three charges, two in relation to a young parliamentary worker in 2016 and one in relation to a woman at his family’s central London home in 2007.
Elphicke, who was told he will be sentenced on 15 September, sighed and looked at his lawyer as the unanimous verdicts were returned.

The judge, Mrs Justice Whipple, said: “All options remain very much on the table, including the possibility of an immediate custodial sentence.”
 

Cnoc a Leassa

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…..

In a previous assessment of Sterling made in June, BofA told clients they saw Sterling as having transformed into an emerging market currency, due to heightened volatility in the four years following the 2016 Brexit referendum that left it resembling the Mexican peso rather than a reserve currency such as the U.S. Dollar.
…..

The body of the piece makes reference to some positive remarks towards GBP.

“The Pound has seen its performance improve through July, with the declines seen in the post-April period fading and in many instances giving away to gains. …. We note that sentiment towards the post-covid economic recovery in the UK has improved somewhat,”

The piece ends with an expectation of a Brexit deal “the two sides continue to inch closer" ... and two assessments … "BofA analysts expect a 'no deal' to have a sizeable impact on Sterling, resulting in the Pound-to-Dollar exchange rate sinking back to 1.10 and below 1.05 in the Pound-to-Euro exchange rate. A "bare-bones trade deal would mean a bleed lower in GBP over the course of 2021. This is the scenario that forms the basis of our forecast profile," says Sharma."
...

Comments by a leading global bank that "Brexit has transformed Sterling into an emerging market currency" and that forecasts further decline if Britain opts for a "bare-bones trade deal" is hardly the outcome that the Brexit voter expected.
 

shiel

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And yet it was the UK who treated their referendum result as binding. In Ireland referendums get voted on a second time if the establishment don't like the first result.
That is the usual anti-EU shite.

Both Denmark and Ireland renegotiated issues with the rest of the EU and having done that changed their minds.

That is the essence of democracy.

Racist English Brexiteers will not let that happen in the UK.
 

Betson

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I see A lot of the usual begrudgery going on in the media towards Ian Bothams elevation to the House of Lords from some those who have still not accepted the referendum result. They are calling it cronyism by Borris to high profile Brexit supports , do these people not know how these things work and always have worked.

Beefy will make a great Lord and is a far better choice than many over the years.

Good also to see Bercow been overlooked , he will be seething , which makes it all the better. Most partial speaker ever.
 

Ireniall

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It’s a British invention is it not?
It was. It was an idea to ensure that some Protestant representation might come through but its legacy is that every possible minority you could think of was elected including in particular shameless parish pump self-servers which ensured that 80% of independents in the whole EU were to be found in Ireland. That said-anything , any thing , anything is better than the carry on in Westminster where the whacky extremes get to take over the mainstream parties because there is effectively nowhere else to go.
 

Ireniall

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I see A lot of the usual begrudgery going on in the media towards Ian Bothams elevation to the House of Lords from some those who have still not accepted the referendum result. They are calling it cronyism by Borris to high profile Brexit supports , do these people not know how these things work and always have worked.

Beefy will make a great Lord and is a far better choice than many over the years.

Good also to see Bercow been overlooked , he will be seething , which makes it all the better. Most partial speaker ever.
You seem to gone full brexiteer there Betson. You defend the elevation of Botham to the Lords on the grounds that all governments appointed their own but then you attack Bercow for not being impartial. The reality is that brexiteers think that being impartial means that you must support brexit-which is why they think that Botham would make an excellent Lord. You would have to wonder what their understanding of the meaning of the word is though.
 

Betson

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You seem to gone full brexiteer there Betson. You defend the elevation of Botham to the Lords on the grounds that all governments appointed their own but then you attack Bercow for not being impartial. The reality is that brexiteers think that being impartial means that you must support brexit-which is why they think that Botham would make an excellent Lord. You would have to wonder what their understanding of the meaning of the word is though.

I think Botham would make an excellent lord because he comes across as thoroughly reasonable fellow who has done a lot of good work over the years for charities and voluntary organisations and will bring common sense to the chamber, nothing to do with Brexit.

As for Bercow the main requirement of his job was to be impartial , the fact that he was not undermined democracy and the HOC and was it was right that he was not rewarded for that.
 


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