BREXIT: the general forum (Second Thread)


FunkyBoogaloo

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Ah here, whether you agree or not Moscovici is the European Commissioner for Economic and Financial Affairs, Taxation and Customs ... a lot of the Brits said they had "had enough of experts" when this whole Brexit thing started and now they're saying they dont want to listen to business leaders and CEOs of multinational companies..... You simply cant just dismiss these people as Britain is finding out to its peril .. and it will only get worse.

Im not sure what else to say in reply to your post as Im not quite sure what it is you actually think will happen or indeed want to see happening.. anyway, there ye go :?
I can dismiss them, if I so choose. You don't have to like that but such is life.

Muscovici is an incompetent and unelected charlatan who - as if to remind us all how things actually work in the EU - is quite prepared to break the rules when it comes to his home country. The big boys break the rules and a blind eye is turned, or the rules are changed. A smaller member state does the same and it's sanctions time. The EU is largely broken... and has been since the big boys started ignoring the rules of the S&G pact. Heck, even the populace don't lend it support... the majority can't be arsed to get out and vote for so-called "european democracy".

I think the same of the UK as I always have - perfidious Albion. F.u.c.k the lot of them!

What I think will happen is irrelevant. What I want is anarchy. :)
 

galteeman

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Someone posted this article earlier. I only got around to reading it now.
Very clear and concise account of things up to now.

It's not good for the UK.
At this stage we could probably squeeze more concessions out.
The crown jewels?
Big Ben?
David Attenborough ?
The unbroken one from Ant and Dec?
Cromwells bones?
The Tories don't seem willing to even discuss giving up NI so they can proceed with a real Brexit for the rest. I'm still not sure if it's genuine concern for the union or just the temporary reliance on DUP to stay in power.
 

Toland

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The Tories don't seem willing to even discuss giving up NI so they can proceed with a real Brexit for the rest. I'm still not sure if it's genuine concern for the union or just the temporary reliance on DUP to stay in power.
Almost certainly the latter. They are no more than a pain in the neck to the Tories.
 

firefly123

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The Tories don't seem willing to even discuss giving up NI so they can proceed with a real Brexit for the rest. I'm still not sure if it's genuine concern for the union or just the temporary reliance on DUP to stay in power.
Well in December last year they enthusiastically signed up to the backstop only to get a dose of ...er... patriotism thanks to the DUP.

The UK is conservative constituencies as far as the Tory party is concerned
 

blinding

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Brexit would go so much smoother if the Big Island Brits dump Northern Ireland on Leo .

Poser Leo would be stuck in a Pose then .
 

Prof Honeydew

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Tony Connelly analyses May's letter in his Twitter account. Basically, he's saying it's complete bullshìt because it contains so many contradictions and magical thinking. Below are just SOME of the highlights.

Tony Connelly (@tconnellyRTE) | Twitter
The opening is a bit confusing: “A Brussels plan to put a customs border in the Irish Sea if there is no Brexit agreement will be included in a divorce deal”.The idea of a No Brexit Agreement usually means No Divorce Deal, so it sounds contradictory: ie, if there’s no divorce deal we’ll have this in the divorce deal.

May is saying that if the long term free trade negotiations are “unsuccessful” then the EU wants the NI-specific backstop to take over. That would indeed involve NI staying in the customs union and single market for goods. But what does “unsuccessful” mean? Does it mean the FTA negotiations break down? Or does it mean they don’t deliver the all important guarantee that there’s no need for customs or regulatory controls on the Irish border?

May says: “I could not accept there being any circumstances or conditions in which that ‘backstop to the backstop’, which would break up the UK customs territory, could come in to force.” This is there to reassure the DUP, but it will not reassure Dublin or the EU.

But London persisted, saying the TCA has to be legally binding in the Withdrawal Agreement, and not a “vague promise” in the Political Declaration which will accompany it. But here May seems to want to have her legal cake and eat it. On the one hand she’s arguing the “backstop” has to be temporary because Article 50 demands that it’s temporary (ie, Article 50 can’t “establish a permanent relationship”).

She’s effectively throwing the EU’s own legal logic back at Brussels: the backstop (either the NI-specific one or the TCA) can’t be permanent because Article 50 is only a divorce treaty, not a future relationship treaty. And yet on the other hand London is asking Brussels to bend the rules so that the Article 50 Withdrawal Agreement *can* accommodate the UK-wide customs union, which is a future relationship issue.
God alone knows what Barnier made of it.
 

Ó Ghabhainn

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Brexit would go so much smoother if the Big Island Brits dump Northern Ireland on Leo .

Poser Leo would be stuck in a Pose then .
The only thing in keeping with the GFA is the Backstop, which is why all this talk of moving "the border" to the Irish Sea is deeply unhelpful. Sovereignty will not be touched, and it's unnecessary to play on sensitivities while unionism is on its uncomfortable back foot. Of course, this suits the DUPers.
 

NMunsterman

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Tony Connelly analyses May's letter in his Twitter account. Basically, he's saying it's complete bullshìt because it contains so many contradictions and magical thinking. Below are just SOME of the highlights.

Tony Connelly (@tconnellyRTE) | Twitter


God alone knows what Barnier made of it.
This is why the EU must insist that what the British Govt signed up to in December 2017 must be honoured.
If the British Govt refuse, then No Deal.
if a No Deal scenario brings down the British Govt, then so be it - the EU deals with the next British Govt which must honour the December 2017 commitments.

Otherwise, every time a British Govt changes, they will simply say that they are not bound by any commitments entered into by a previous British Govt - and that is totally unacceptable.
 

Sync

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If you take May at her literal word (Which you can't, and certainly can't assume successors will stick to this) then she is saying she will take any EU deal offered because to refuse it would be circumstances which would necessitate the backstop's backstop (TM Sync).

The entire letter looks like absinthe fueled nonsense that was cobbled together from 2 letters to different people promising different things.
 

Erudite Caveman

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If you take May at her literal word (Which you can't, and certainly can't assume successors will stick to this) then she is saying she will take any EU deal offered because to refuse it would be circumstances which would necessitate the backstop's backstop (TM Sync).

The entire letter looks like absinthe fueled nonsense that was cobbled together from 2 letters to different people promising different things.
Looks like something Caroline Nokes would write.

Welcome to confusotocracy.
 

blinding

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There has been an argument / idea that this letter has been leaked purposely by the Dup to take the media coverage away from the SIF scandal that they have been involved in .

Its working well for them at the moment .
 

lastofthebohemians

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Theresa May might as well stay in the First World War grave yards shes visiting this morning, get out a shovel and start digging
a plot for her "Chequers" plan...:cool2:
 

Sync

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Excerpts from the letter

[TWEET]1060673499822481408[/TWEET]
Excerpts from the DUP letter to May

[TWEET]1060794083709476864[/TWEET]
 

hollandia

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Excerpts from the letter

[TWEET]1060673499822481408[/TWEET]
Excerpts from the DUP letter to May

[TWEET]1060794083709476864[/TWEET]
Brexit promised all things to all men. Reality is somewhat different. As Theresa seems incapable of learning. This is coming to a head, pretty sharpish.
 
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Erudite Caveman

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Excerpts from the letter


Excerpts from the DUP letter to May
Meh, nothing new in it whatsoever. Obduracy and inability to even give an inch to help May help them.

What is new though is the sense of resignation in Foster's comments.
 
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