BREXIT: The Starters Gun for Irish Reunification?

CastleRay

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"A second is the importance of immigration. When David Cameron promised a referendum in his speech at Bloomberg in January 2013, he made no reference to this. Even many Tories who, unlike Mr Cameron, campaigned for Brexit stressed regaining sovereignty, not reducing the numbers coming into the country. But the authors put more credence on the goal of Nigel Farage, UKIP’s then leader: to make people see migration and Europe as the same."

https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2017/04/29/explaining-britains-vote-to-leave-the-eu
Are you saying that movement of workers is or isn't an issue? Controls on movement is fine, open door policy is not fine. Are you suggesting that a trade deal with India would mean every Indian who fancies it can move to the UK and get the deal that EU members have?
 


McSlaggart

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Are you saying that movement of workers is or isn't an issue? Controls on movement is fine, open door policy is not fine.
A lot of people in the UK voted to get out of the EU because of the movement of people. More people from other parts of the world ...... will not be acceptable for a lot of people in the uk.
 

blinding

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A lot of people in the UK voted to get out of the EU because of the movement of people. More people from other parts of the world ...... will not be acceptable for a lot of people in the uk.
It depends on the numbers . The vast majority of British people were not overly put out by the levels of immigration that were happening up to 15 years ago .

Its as the crazy mass immigration of the last 15 years that just pushed the envelope too far . Go back to the levels of immigration that were before this latest mass immigration and the vast majority of British People will go back to the way they were before .
 

CastleRay

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A lot of people in the UK voted to get out of the EU because of the movement of people. More people from other parts of the world ...... will not be acceptable for a lot of people in the uk.
I've no idea what you're answering there. Controls on movement will be fine in the UK. An open door policy is not fine. The only trade agreement with that is the one with the EU and we are leaving it. As you've cited potential deals with India or Australia, are you using them to suggest something similar? Canada CETA with the EU has no such deal as a requirement. I don't think free movement of people is normal for a trade deal at all but working visas and relaxed laws around that to facilitate movement of workers is possible and nobody expressed any fear of that during the referendum campaign.
 

McSlaggart

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I've no idea what you're answering there. Controls on movement will be fine in the UK. An open door policy is not fine. The only trade agreement with that is the one with the EU and we are leaving it. As you've cited potential deals with India or Australia, are you using them to suggest something similar? Canada CETA with the EU has no such deal as a requirement. I don't think free movement of people is normal for a trade deal at all but working visas and relaxed laws around that to facilitate movement of workers is possible and nobody expressed any fear of that during the referendum campaign.
"Lord Ashcroft's election day poll of 12,369 voters also discovered that 'One third (33%) [of leave voters] said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit#Immigration

Replacing Polish workers with ones from India will not go down well in middle England.
 

CastleRay

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"Lord Ashcroft's election day poll of 12,369 voters also discovered that 'One third (33%) [of leave voters] said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit#Immigration

Replacing Polish workers with ones from India will not go down well in middle England.
You do realise that "controlled immigration" is very different from an open or a closed border?
 

CastleRay

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Lets see how controlled the immigration is once the negotiations are finished with the likes of India.
I'm all in favour of immigration controlled for those who can sustain themselves and their families. No problem with that at all.

Btw, that's not "normal" now but a wait and see in the future "maybe" from you.
 

McSlaggart

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I'm all in favour of immigration controlled for those who can sustain themselves and their families. No problem with that at all.

Btw, that's not "normal" now but a wait and see in the future "maybe" from you.
No I think the UK will have great trouble getting the same deals with other states that it currently has with the EU.
 

Talk Back

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Are you saying that movement of workers is or isn't an issue?
Yeah - the pro Brexit side was on about something about foreigners - and Unicorns promises, and Rainbows promises.

Oh and - something about blue passports.
 

McSlaggart

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On what basis do you hold this opinion?
Before Brexit got under way I would have given lots of reasons but now..... how the hell is the UK making such a mess of its dealings with Brexit.


"The UK plans to remain in the EU’s customs union until December 2021, according to a new ‘backstop’ proposal unveiled by Teresa May, aimed at avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic."

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/uk-plans-to-stay-in-customs-union-until-december-2021-under-new-backstop/

The old I have not done my homework so I will use the "Irish Border" excuse.
 

Craigmore..

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On what basis do you hold this opinion?
Before Brexit got under way I would have given lots of reasons but now..... how the hell is the UK making such a mess of its dealings with Brexit.


"The UK plans to remain in the EU’s customs union until December 2021, according to a new ‘backstop’ proposal unveiled by Teresa May, aimed at avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic."

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/uk-plans-to-stay-in-customs-union-until-december-2021-under-new-backstop/

The old I have not done my homework so I will use the "Irish Border" excuse.
 

McSlaggart

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The British cannot get out of the EU ???? Wow and you think that makes them excellent at making a deal.
 

Enoch Root

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Could you please post up your argument to explain your conclusion.
The problem here is that Fitzgerald is comparing a UI with a best-case "prosperous future" for at UK-controlled NI in which the rest of the UK will be sympathetic and supportive to it.

And that's not going to happen. As Yellowhammer scenarios play out belts will be tightened and UK funding for NI will dry up. There will also be no distinction in the minds of the majority of the British public between RoI and UK-controlled NI; "Ireland" will be blamed for a no-deal disaster.

There'll be very little sympathy for the sufferings of NI from Britain, as they'll be suffering themselves.

A no-deal Brexit will economically hurt NI. A UI will economically hurt NI. But a UI gives the potential to eventually get out from under that hurt.

A UI is still a better option for everyone in NI overall, irrespective of the politics.
 
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McTell

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No
A lot of the state supported parts of the economy will have to go. The biggest losers will be anyone depending on the state for housing, jobs, healthcare, pensions etc.

Our rulers in SoCoDu don't like poor people.

And then the shopping price differ between newry and Dundalk will go. Tesco in Newry must be 30% cheaper... that 30% will end.

Smuggling... don't get me started.
 

Newrybhoy

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A lot of the state supported parts of the economy will have to go. The biggest losers will be anyone depending on the state for housing, jobs, healthcare, pensions etc.

Our rulers in SoCoDu don't like poor people.

And then the shopping price differ between newry and Dundalk will go. Tesco in Newry must be 30% cheaper... that 30% will end.

Smuggling... don't get me started.
I look forward to you explaining this to those dependant on social housing,healthcare and pensions and that work for the state, will get to lose these things to facilitate the takeover from the RoI.

It sounds like a winning campaign.
 


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