"Brexit, there is a growing consensus that it imperils the union"

firefly123

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Remember this episode of star trek where they talked of irish unity by 2024?

Who'd have thought the terrorism was actually from the tory party and the DUP.
 


shiel

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Brexiteers declare economic war on this former colony, blame Paddy for the consequences and gloat about it.
 

death or glory

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Brexiteers declare economic war on this former colony, blame Paddy for the consequences and gloat about it.
Paddy,
Then we have to watch the former colony enforce a hard border and drive a horse and cart through the GFA.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
You want to pop along and explain that to farmers along a border that only exists in pencil on political maps and makes no other sense should be made real with a wall or fence across their land?

be my guest.
 

McSlaggart

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Paddy,
Then we have to watch the former colony enforce a hard border and drive a horse and cart through the GFA.

You think a government/political parties who's actions mean that their has to be a hard border are driving a horse and cart through the GFA.
 

death or glory

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You think a government/political parties who's actions mean that their has to be a hard border are driving a horse and cart through the GFA.
No flies no you,
McFly.
 

caledhel

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Paddy,
Then we have to watch the former colony enforce a hard border and drive a horse and cart through the GFA.
Seriously, that's a special needs remark. One wonders. Are we making the wrong assumptions about the league the UK team are in? Are there unusual limits of cognition at play here?
 

death or glory

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Seriously, that's a special needs remark. One wonders. Are we making the wrong assumptions about the league the UK team are in? Are there unusual limits of cognition at play here?
Well the EU says Eire will have to enforce customs posts and the border and Leo sees troops at the border. And you're calling me special needs, wake up and smell the coffee!
 

owedtojoy

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You think a government/political parties who's actions mean that their has to be a hard border are driving a horse and cart through the GFA.
Well the EU says Eire will have to enforce customs posts and the border and Leo sees troops at the border. And you're calling me special needs, wake up and smell the coffee!
No country will make a Free Trade Agreement with a country that has no border controls .... because it means that smuggling will be rampant

The USA is not going to make a Free Trade Agreement for goods with the UK if the Chinese (or anyone) can do cheap knockoffs and ship them in over the Irish border. No one here is going to stop them.

During the Troubles, terrorists and smugglers got a grip on the border region, North and South e.g. shifting animals around to get double-payments of EU grants. They are ready to get back into a very lucrative business - smuggling goods and trafficking people.

12 Million Turks want to go the to the UK? No problem, just get to the Republic and you will be looked after.

Despite Boris Johnson's bluster and bullsh!t, the UK would be a joke if it thought it could get away with a soft Irish border after a no-deal Brexit. The EU may need border controls in that case ... but so will the UK.
 

death or glory

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No country will make a Free Trade Agreement with a country that has no border controls .... because it means that smuggling will be rampant

The USA is not going to make a Free Trade Agreement for goods with the UK if the Chinese (or anyone) can do cheap knockoffs and ship them in over the Irish border. No one here is going to stop them.

During the Troubles, terrorists and smugglers got a grip on the border region, North and South e.g. shifting animals around to get double-payments of EU grants. They are ready to get back into a very lucrative business - smuggling goods and trafficking people.

12 Million Turks want to go the to the UK? No problem, just get to the Republic and you will be looked after.

Despite Boris Johnson's bluster and bullsh!t, the UK would be a joke if it thought it could get away with a soft Irish border after a no-deal Brexit. The EU may need border controls in that case ... but so will the UK.
Your ignorance of the border is laughable.
There is a border presently and smuggling is rife.
Diesel cigarettes and alcohol.are among the legal goods that are smuggled on large scales presently.
With livestock checks are supposed to be carried out in them at the minute before they cross the border but large numbers of lambs cross without tags or paperwork on an illegal basis.
Us British have said we will control the border without making it a hard border, in a similar way to we do with the current border.
 

AhNowStop

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If ever there was a politically definable crew in Ireland so obviously heading for looming irrelevance it has to be the DUP and followers. I'm almost at the initial stage of a pang of sorrow for lads like DoG and Newrybhoy there.

It is like being an observer at a speech from the aft-deck of a sailing ship, with crew standing about and distracted a bit by the inescapable sight of the mast getting lower from the sun in the sky at a strangely hasty rate and that the sea seems a bit nearer to the gunwales than it was a while ago. Someone needs to politely cough and inform the Captain but he's just getting to his favourite bit...
Yep, comical Ali has just lost his title ... and all self imposed too ;)

How perfectly apt
 

caledhel

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Well the EU says Eire will have to enforce customs posts and the border and Leo sees troops at the border. And you're calling me special needs, wake up and smell the coffee!
Part of my initial thinking on your posting tells me that it's attention seeking. There are some people who cannot feel their existence without being perceived by someone else. It's a typical symptom of some sort of, often deliberate enculturated, traumatisation.

So they engage in outrageous behaviour because the alternative is a feeling of nothingness. You can find depressive episodes when you discuss it seriously with them, and the behaviour is frequently excused by reason of this, but there's a more fundamental problem. There's something broken in them, that unrestrained, can do extraordinary damage.

So it could be that. But the reason why I described it as a special needs remark is because of the obvious error in the thinking. If the UK reneges on its agreement to uphold a non-sectarian settlement in NI it will compel Ireland and the EU to quarantine it.

The GFA will not vanish - no more than any law vanishes simply because it is broken. Furthermore it has been thoroughly clarified in the Withdrawal Agreement. Whether or not May's deal is implemented, the WA has produced a body of interpretation that will have standing and that is of historic value.

Remember the chapter on NI was accepted across the EU member states and by the UK government. The safeguarding of mechanisms of civic society, based on democratic and meritocratic values, has a consensus behind it. Simply because the hardliners in Westminster have agreed among themselves doesn't make the abrogation of the GFA inevitable. It just makes it more embarrassing.

Thinking that it will be negated because the UK political system is substandard and dysfunctional is not an example of thinking that can consider the matter reliably or realistically. The best it can be described as is special needs as this avoids the suggestion that it's merely bad faith, bad character and bad intention.

If you aren't merely a troll then it's time to start to realise that the Orange State no longer exists and a society that binds itself together on the hatred of a native "underclass" is anachronistic and implausible.

Perhaps you could outline what the conflict in the North is about? How you see the communities? Clearly you're spending plenty of time on a website associated with the Irish polity and discussions between its citizens.

Sometimes it's like you realise the desperate position your community is in and are looking for a way out. The received wisdom of it, of the people closest to you, is being articulated here in your posts - repeated for our examination. If you value your community and its success in the future then there has to be a seachange in how you go about things. Making life better isn't going to be achieved by attempts to re-establish a superficially deferential caste beneath you.

This is a very serious matter and your notions don't get much beyond silly. I'm not your mother, I don't find silly charming or acceptable. The Unionist community is not going to be driven from their homes into the sea at the point of a bayonet but it does need to be driven from its stupidities by determined adults.
 

RasherHash

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@JpiersM
Presumably once a general election is called, parliament is suspended during which time we will have left the EU, which is why Corbyn won't call an election now, he has to wait until an extension. But I figure that Boris could veto the extension at 11:30pm and we will have left.
 

firefly123

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@JpiersM
Presumably once a general election is called, parliament is suspended during which time we will have left the EU, which is why Corbyn won't call an election now, he has to wait until an extension. But I figure that Boris could veto the extension at 11:30pm and we will have left.
We will will we?

Need new tape for your mask there?
 

owedtojoy

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Your ignorance of the border is laughable.
There is a border presently and smuggling is rife.
Diesel cigarettes and alcohol.are among the legal goods that are smuggled on large scales presently.
With livestock checks are supposed to be carried out in them at the minute before they cross the border but large numbers of lambs cross without tags or paperwork on an illegal basis.
Us British have said we will control the border without making it a hard border, in a similar way to we do with the current border.
Good luck with that.

In other words, you are failing to control what border there is right now, and you are about to fail even more. Smuggling will probably quintuple after a no-deal Brexit. Anyone wanting a Free Trade Agreement will tell you that is unacceptable.

Why should anyone make a "Free" Trade Agreement with a country that is Free-For-All?
 

raetsel

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Rather predictably, more pressure is piling on the DUP this evening. William Hague has just chipped with the suggestion that they are putting their sacred union at mortal risk through intransigence and he has told them to drop their insistence on a unionist only veto on remaining in the "backstop" arrangement.
“A no-deal outcome would bring forward dramatically the day when Sinn Fein beats them in an election and a “border poll” takes place.
“Perhaps recognising this danger, the DUP have now agreed that Northern Ireland could stay within the orbit of EU regulations after Brexit, but only subject to the renewed consent of the Stormont assembly every four years. Since they could then vote to leave that arrangement anyway, if the assembly could ever agree to meet, it is not surprising that this does not go down well on the other side.
“It would be in their own interests to make a further concession – that any future departure from single market rules would require, just like the formation of an Executive in Belfast, the agreement of both nationalist and loyalist communities.
“If Mrs Foster could bring herself to make that crucial move, then the third decision maker, Leo Varadkar, would face a much more finely balanced judgment.
 

death or glory

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Good luck with that.

In other words, you are failing to control what border there is right now, and you are about to fail even more. Smuggling will probably quintuple after a no-deal Brexit. Anyone wanting a Free Trade Agreement will tell you that is unacceptable.

Why should anyone make a "Free" Trade Agreement with a country that is Free-For-All?
Nobody's complaining about the control of the present border.
You are never going to stop all smuggling but it is the keeping of the large scale smuggling to the minimum is the key.
Sure I used to smuggle the odd drum of diesel myself.
 

AhNowStop

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Nobody's complaining about the control of the present border.
You are never going to stop all smuggling but it is the keeping of the large scale smuggling to the minimum is the key.
Sure I used to smuggle the odd drum of diesel myself.
Pity ye hadnt managed to smuggle yourself to school in the morning ye dopey fekwit ... ye may have been able to talk the odd bit of sense by now instead of your usual constant infantile borefests 😕
 

AhNowStop

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Ex-Tory leader Hague warns DUP over no-deal

Former Conservative Party leader William Hague has warned the DUP that if Brexit ends in "no-deal" they will look back on a pivotal moment and realise they “needed a deal more than they ever knew

 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Rather predictably, more pressure is piling on the DUP this evening. William Hague has just chipped with the suggestion that they are putting their sacred union at mortal risk through intransigence and he has told them to drop their insistence on a unionist only veto on remaining in the "backstop" arrangement.
Well, at least someone in UK politics has spotted the approaching speed-bump... I could care less if the DUP are awarded a veto, FA Cup and the Ashes jug. It ain't going to change much in the order of things to come.
 


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