"Brexit, there is a growing consensus that it imperils the union"

Newrybhoy

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I have no objection to you having a particular view that if one bombs a town the objective is always to murder and destroy.

What other objective is there only to murder and destroy if you detonate a bomb in a town?
 


Glaucon

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Funnily enough the way demographics etc are going there is a very good chance that to avoid a Sinn Fein dominated NI the best thing to do would be to vote for a united Ireland. Sinn Fein would never have power in a united Ireland but may soon be the largest party in NI.
Such are the vagaries of this island we share.
Unionists don't really care about the rest of Ireland. What they do care about is NI and the balance of power within it. The great fear of Ulster Unionism is that it will be outnumbered and discriminated against in a united Ireland. This fear may seem silly nowadays, but it's very real and shouldn't be discounted. If certain people have trouble accepting Ireland's Call as a rugby anthem, how much more will it take to cater to a million Unionists?

The only means of avoiding a sustained Loyalist campaign of violence (which would cripple the Irish state) is an agreed Ireland which appeals to a decent percentage of middle of the road Unionists.

The EU (via a UI) or UK outside the EU argument does this. But it has to be taken slowly and in steps. Both governments have long understood that the way out of the "Ulster problem" for both the Republic and the UK is progressive disengagement. British generals were writing the same as far back as 1972.

The former chief of staff, later Lord Carver, wrote: "If I am right, and we want a lasting solution, it must lie in finding a way in which HM Government can gradually escape from the commitment to the border."

He suggested a "plebiscite", or poll, organised "in such a way that it shows up the inequity of the existing border".

But a united Ireland remains a long way away. Sinn Féin is not honest about this with Nationalists, but any clued-in observers know that the only remedy is to let events take their course.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I wonder is it true that the King refused to decorate Bomber Harris because of his rumoured liking for using red cross signs as a target.
 

McTell

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OP

"Even among those who back Brexit, there is a growing consensus that it imperils the union of the United Kingdom, ///


Oh I thought this thread was about brexit imperilling our union, the european union.

Lots of unions, all over the shop.
 

Emily Davison

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Do you think the objectives there was not to murder and destroy?
I did not need to feed your continual need to forever look back as that doesn’t solve anything. But by all means continue there, it helps you and others, and I mean on both sides, to stay firmly entrenched. Meanwhile some of us wish to move on. For a better future for the next generation.
 

Newrybhoy

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I did not need to feed your continual need to forever look back as that doesn’t solve anything. But by all means continue there, it helps you and others, and I mean on both sides, to stay firmly entrenched. Meanwhile some of us wish to move on. For a better future for the next generation.
It is SF who are still idolising the murderers, no one else.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Sinn Fein out of the partisan parties of the north were under pressure for decades to engage with civil discourse, enjoined to elect for the ballot box rather than the armalite.

I'm beginning to think Sinn Fein's commitment to peaceful negotiation and politics rather than violence must be regarded as a black day indeed for some on the unionist side.

Certain Fine Gaelers in the Republic spent twenty years trying to encourage Sinn Fein to engage in a peace process. Rather alarmingly, it came to pass, and the unionists both north and south of the border still insist upon regarding Sinn Fein as a sort of terrorist organisation.

I suppose it all means you should be careful what you wish for.
 

Emily Davison

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It is SF who are still idolising the murderers, no one else.
Yawn, you really are a one trick pony. I actually think you’d prefer that the IRA were still armed. The way you constantly go on about the past, it’s like you hanker for it, and without it being the present you focus on that past. In fact you seem to be clinging onto it.
 

Emily Davison

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Varadkar is right. If the DUP will not accept a "single Irish economic zone" then we should abandon any hope of trying to compromise and concentrate on how we can win a vote on Irish unity.
The DUP and their supporters are impossible to deal with, and are irrational, racist throwbacks, who would be an embarrassing addition to the population of Britain should they choose to migrate back to their ancestral "homeland" after a unity vote. But if that sort show signs of leaving, rather than causing murder and mayhem, we should incentivise them with resettlement grants.
It's called #fvckoffmoney apparently.............................................
Article is behind a paywall. I disagree with you that the DUP are impossible to deal with. We must try. And keep trying. England is going to abandon them, so naturally they are ramping up the rhetoric. They are rightly scared. Anyone listening to Boris yesterday who is in the DUP must be fuming,
 

Newrybhoy

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Yawn, you really are a one trick pony. I actually think you’d prefer that the IRA were still armed. The way you constantly go on about the past, it’s like you hanker for it, and without it being the present you focus on that past. In fact you seem to be clinging onto it.
SF ran it down the throats of the people of NI every chance they get. They choose to glorify the murderers and place many of them in charge of their party.

You don't care as you don't have to tolerate them.
 

McSlaggart

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SF ran it down the throats of the people of NI every chance they get. They choose to glorify the murderers and place many of them in charge of their party.

You don't care as you don't have to tolerate them.
Do you think unionism treated the sdlp well before the rise of sf as the main nationalist party?
 

Emily Davison

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SF ran it down the throats of the people of NI every chance they get. They choose to glorify the murderers and place many of them in charge of their party.

You don't care as you don't have to tolerate them.
SF are only one political party. They are basically nobody in the South and the stuff they say in NI is not acceptable to most of the rest of us on this island yourself included. Most of us will never vote for them ever (me included) Mary Lou was interviewed yesterday on BBC or one of the other channels and she was useless, and her handlers did her no favours by putting her in direct sunlight.

You pay far too much head to the past/ to SF etc. Stop looking for trouble and strife. Why not focus on something more positive. Most of us are actually concered that if England dumps NI that both loyalists and republicans can continue to live in peace.

I find it very odd that you and others never see anything wrong, given your view of things, with what we are hearing from some Tory MP's/English press etc. Does that not give you pause for thought.
 

Emily Davison

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Do you think unionism treated the sdlp well before the rise of sf as the main nationalist party?
Why encourage him. We'll never get anywhere if we all keep going back to he said/she said.
 


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