Brid Smith TD makes personalised attack on High Court judge

Fur Q

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This story has been referred to on other threads but probably deserves one of its own.

Brid Smith, the far-left TD, has been strongly criticised by the Minister for Justice, the Association of Judges in Ireland and the Bar Council for a personalised attack on Judge Garrett Simons for his recent judgment striking down the sectoral employment order for construction workers.

In her Facebook post, Smith called Simons a "right wing judge" who earns over €200,000 (which is incorrect).

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Charlie Flanagan has called the remarks "sinister". The AJI have said:


The comments of the politician “amount to an extraordinary and wholly unjustified attack on the integrity and independence of the judge”, they said.

“The suggestion that the judge’s judgment was ideologically-motivated is baseless and dangerous. That such comments should be made by a member of Dáil Éireann is particularly concerning.”

My own view is that sometimes lawyers can be overly precious about legitimate criticism of judges' decisions. However it's one thing to criticise the decision itself; it's another entirely to personally attack the judge making it. We've seen this sort of nasty populism from both the far right and far left in recent years and it's worrying to see Smith and the Irish far left descend even deeper into the gutter.
 


Buchaill Dana

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Do you need a safe space?

The decision he made has huge implications for wages and conditions, and not upwards. While it is a bit personal, its hardly a shock that a left wing politician challenges a verdict that screws workers.

Your response is pure snowflake.
 

Fur Q

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Do you need a safe space?

The decision he made has huge implications for wages and conditions, and not upwards. While it is a bit personal, its hardly a shock that a left wing politician challenges a verdict that screws workers.

Your response is pure snowflake.
You're just a moron
 

Dame_Enda

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While I dont normally support singling out judges, I think that it is problematic that we are supposed to meekly accept the judiciarys decisions without criticism, despite the lack of democratic oversight over this branch of decision making.

I find it somewhat puzzling that the ruling on the one hand struck down the legislation, while also referencing the existing regulatory policy for electricians as being in violation of it.
 

Fur Q

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Oh look. Another right wing manchild.

A working class woman with an opinion must really boil your piss.
You’re such a dribbling cretin that you ignored or failed to understand the part of my OP where I said people were perfectly entitled to criticise judgments.

Feel free to point out how the judge was wrong in law.
 

cobhguy

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Do you need a safe space?

The decision he made has huge implications for wages and conditions, and not upwards. While it is a bit personal, its hardly a shock that a left wing politician challenges a verdict that screws workers.

Your response is pure snowflake.
She didn't challenge anything in the verdict, she challenged the motives of the Judge and inferred it was done by him and the state because the Judge and the State thinks the workers earn to much. She completely missed the point that it was the present government that brought in the SEO order and that the old ERAs were declared unconstitutional in 2013, I didn't see anywhere that the new ERAs also brought in under Fine Gael are affected by the judgment.
 

Uganda

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Another scurrilous statement from the scroungersrus brigade.

interesting how she never responds to questions about her own €178,000 pa income
 

cobhguy

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I find it somewhat puzzling that the ruling on the one hand struck down the legislation, while also referencing the existing regulatory policy for electricians as being in violation of it.
That is how rulings on the Constitution normally work. The constitutionality of the law is the last point looked at after everything else.
 

Sync

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It’s a trend. It’s more pronounced in the US, particularly under Trump but it’s been in the U.K. as well. Politicians complaining about judges when cases go against them. And, as in this case, it’s usually in the form of personalised attacks because they can’t find the point of law they disagree with, just that they don’t like the results.

It’s a trend amongst intellectually bereft politicians. Brid falls into that category, but she didn’t invent this, and this is hardly the worst example.
 

Buchaill Dana

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You’re such a dribbling cretin that you ignored or failed to understand the part of my OP where I said people were perfectly entitled to criticise judgments.

Feel free to point out how the judge was wrong in law.
Behave.
She didn't challenge anything in the verdict, she challenged the motives of the Judge and inferred it was done by him and the state because the Judge and the State thinks the workers earn to much. She completely missed the point that it was the present government that brought in the SEO order and that the old ERAs were declared unconstitutional in 2013, I didn't see anywhere that the new ERAs also brought in under Fine Gael are affected by the judgment.
Have a look into the judges past. Specifically the banking enquiry.

But I don’t disagree its superficial to criticise the judge instead of the ruling, but she did both, but he does have form
 

tsarbomb

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Judges have an awful lot of power and usually come from well to do backgrounds and while I'm not at all a fan of Smith and her politics, I think it's good to see judiciary getting some heat. Hopefully more decisions in future won't be taken sitting down.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
We have tended in the past to be overly precious about the legal profession and the judiciary in Ireland. There has all too often been a bang of 'protestant on a horse' off their assumed dignity.

We are often told of the law being a pillar of independence from politics and yet post crisis in 2007 and up to 2011 when it was suggested that this august body might like to take a haircut on income like most other people the Chief Justice was into the Taoiseach's office like a rat up a drainpipe. The separate suddenly became inseparable.
 

former wesleyan

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Judges have an awful lot of power and usually come from well to do backgrounds and while I'm not at all a fan of Smith and her politics, I think it's good to see judiciary getting some heat. Hopefully more decisions in future won't be taken sitting down.
All rise !
 

cobhguy

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Behave.

Have a look into the judges past. Specifically the banking enquiry.

But I don’t disagree its superficial to criticise the judge instead of the ruling, but she did both, but he does have form
Well once the judgment is published, people can read it and show were he went wrong. If he did.
 

cobhguy

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Judges have an awful lot of power and usually come from well to do backgrounds and while I'm not at all a fan of Smith and her politics, I think it's good to see judiciary getting some heat. Hopefully more decisions in future won't be taken sitting down.
There are hundreds of appeal of court decisions every year. So everyone of them is someone not taken it sitting down. So I don't see the point of criticizing a Judge ( which is politicising the judiciary) unless someone can show a legal failure in their Judgement.
 

Buchaill Dana

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Well once the judgment is published, people can read it and show were he went wrong. If he did.
Fine. But at a macro level an FG appointee who did magnificent and not in amy way questionable work on the banking investigation made a finding that sets workers rights back 70 years and has a profound effect on social partnership. The left will have an opinion on that.
 

cobhguy

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Fine. But at a macro level an FG appointee who did magnificent and not in amy way questionable work on the banking investigation made a finding that sets workers rights back 70 years and has a profound effect on social partnership. The left will have an opinion on that.
Of course they will, I personally did not want to see these laws struck down but an personal attack, basically saying we will shamed you unless you rule a certain way, and there are much worse on the comment section of her facebook account, is an attack on democracy.

This has not set workers right back 70 years. This legislation is from 2015 and 2019 and it was the way it was written and implemented that was ruled unconstitutional not the actually purpose of the law.
 

gijoe

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Do you need a safe space?

The decision he made has huge implications for wages and conditions, and not upwards. While it is a bit personal, its hardly a shock that a left wing politician challenges a verdict that screws workers.

Your response is pure snowflake.
I don't get why the State has any business in setting sectoral terms and conditions. Beyond setting minimum wage and standards across the State it has no business in setting terms beyond that. Sectoral wages where skills are required set their own level through supply and demand subject to minimum wage and standards setting the floor.
 


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