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Bring back the Death Penalty: Former High Court President


kerrynorth

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TommyO'Brien

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The death penalty is gone for good. Period. We have signed binding international agreements that make it impossible to introduce. The constitution also rules it out.

The death penalty also doesn't work as a deterrent in capital crimes. Thinking it does is based on a fundamental misconception. People commit crime against the person based on the belief that they will not get caught. You can have the toughest sentences possible but it will make no difference if the person committing the crime believes they won't apply to them as they will get away with the crime. The way to stop crime is by convincing people that they will not be able to get away with the crime, not by suggesting that if you get caught X will happen to you. (That is why so many criminals go straight from jail on release back to crime, because they still convince themselves that "this time I can do it and not get caught".)

Crimes that are not against the person are impacted upon much more by sentences.

That is why in practice the most dramatic deterrent is not a high tech police force but a visible police force, and why "police on the beat" have greater deterrent impact that police in cars. If someone thinks that around the next corner they may run into a policeman it has a deterrent effect because it undermines the principle motivation, the belief that you can get away with it. The ability of ignore consequences if you think you can get away with it is a human trait across cultures. It is convincing people that they will get caught that is the biggest deterrent in

International studies have shown conclusively that the death penalty makes no difference. In the US some of the states with the death penalty in the 1990s and 2000s had higher capital offense rates than states without it, which blows a hole in the 'death penalty is a deterrent' argument - if it was true there would be a correlation between crime rates and severity of punishment that includes capital punishment. There isn't. Ireland historically had its highest crime rate at the same time when it had a large number of executions. Its lowest crime rate happened at a time when there was no capital punishment. So it is an urban myth that the death penalty deters crimes. International studies completely disprove the claim.
 
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corelli

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The death penalty is gone for good. Period. We have signed binding international agreements that make it impossible to introduce. The constitution also rules it out.
Indeed, our membership of the EU now depends on it, in actuality. Also we have signed the optional protocol to the ECHR. He is just attempting to make news after his, pretty unnoticed, slide into nothingness.

I really hope he is not going to copy Fergus Flood and shoot his gob off at every, media friendly, opportunity. It just makes them look faintly ridiculous.

Methinks, from memory, Johnson was the longest serving judge on the bench thus he did not have to retire at 70, but rather lasted till 72. Silly little fact.
 

euroboy

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perhaps if judges put dangerous people into jail pending trial, it might send out the message to others not to do crime, and also safeguards the people aganist further offenses by the detained individual caught in the act.

I read in a local paper that a man was given 6 months for chasing a social welfare officer away from his house, the judge quoted something about ' a servant of the state going about their business' alongside the 6 mth sentence.

How many years do some get for murder? 2 yrs
 

TommyO'Brien

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Indeed, our membership of the EU now depends on it, in actuality. Also we have signed the optional protocol to the ECHR. He is just attempting to make news after his, pretty unnoticed, slide into nothingness.

I really hope he is not going to copy Fergus Flood and shoot his gob off at every, media friendly, opportunity. It just makes them look faintly ridiculous.

Methinks, from memory, Johnson was the longest serving judge on the bench thus he did not have to retire at 70, but rather lasted till 72. Silly little fact.
I agree. Fergus Flood ended up trivialising himself by his desire to chase headlines and speak the moment someone switched on a microphone.
 

cyberianpan

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Mmmmmm, for certain categories of horrible crime I wonder....

I'm not wild about trying to rehabilitate such people.... and I think they should get extraordinary punishment

I'm not fond of the death penalty, if alone for the pain it could mete out on all of us for feeling that we were involved

But what of:

Humiliation: put the perpetrator into a transparent perspex box in their local community for days at a time
Exile: find some island, wall off a section.... throw the prisoners over the wall with some basic supplies & seeds....if any one them try to escape: shoot them

cyp
 

tiny tim

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I am totally against re-introduction of the Death Penalty no matter how tempting it might be for some despicable crimes. Our society cannot regress to the dark ages again. Mr Justice Johnston must not be allowed to let his view gain momentum. Clearly he is unsure himself whether it would be appropriate or not. How often has it happened that innocent people were executed. Our society should be mature enough to exact justice in a better way.
 

TradCat

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Give us infallible judges and juries and we could talk about it. But without that it is inevitable that innocent people would be put to death by the state.

We could do a lot more to make punishment tougher without considering execution.
 

scratchnsniff

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We did this discussion a short while ago. I believe the matter was settled and that everyone agreed that the death penalty would be a marvelous thing in a perfect judicial world. (;) at least that's my take, others may dare to differ)
 

Andrew49

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I wonder where the 'Pro-Life' people stand on the judge's remarks?
 

TradCat

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I wonder where the 'Pro-Life' people stand on the judge's remarks?
It's not an issue in Ireland. The Catholic Church is completely opposed to the death penalty and Catholics make up the vast majority of the Pro-life movement here.

In the US you get people who are anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. I don't think it's a position easily defended. Either life is sacred or it's not.
 

Andrew49

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Just listening to the radio about this murder: Stalker used cattle gun in execution and it's the surest thing that this killer will be released from prison sometime in the future unless his life sentence means just that!
 

Niceguyeddie

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In the US you get people who are anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. I don't think it's a position easily defended. Either life is sacred or it's not.
+1.

Saw the headline on my way to work and felt really troubled. The Indo is lurching almost comically to the right.
 

kerrynorth

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In the US you get people who are anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. I don't think it's a position easily defended. Either life is sacred or it's not.
In Ireland you get people against the death penalty but yet pro-abortion and euthenasia as ably demonstrated by Ivana Bacik in the Seanad last week. Is that position any easier to defend?
 

Andrew49

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In Ireland you get people against the death penalty but yet pro-abortion and euthenasia as ably demonstrated by Ivana Bacik in the Seanad last week. Is that position any easier to defend?
X Case. Allowing the pregnancy (caused by rape) to go ahead would have been a death penalty for the raped child.
 

SevenStars

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It's not an issue in Ireland. The Catholic Church is completely opposed to the death penalty and Catholics make up the vast majority of the Pro-life movement here.

In the US you get people who are anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. I don't think it's a position easily defended. Either life is sacred or it's not.
Not all Roman Catholics are opposed to the death penalty and for most of its history the RCC has had no problemn with it.

Im undecided about abortion before the formation of the brain in the foetus however I think most people can see plainly that there is a difference between the community taking the life of one of its members who has gravely violated whether through rape or murder the "sacredness of life" as you put it and an innocent child inside its mother's womb being surgically destoried.
 
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The thread is regarding a retired Judge's opinion that the Death Penalty be restored. It is not about anything other than the Judicial Death Penalty.

Having established that it would be good if for just bloody once we could talk about the subject. The restoring of the Death Penalty would be appalling, luckily as things stand at this time, it is impossible, thank God or the E.U. or the people of Ireland.

Has anyone noted that people who steal things, like large sums of money etc., (apart from the political figures, bankers etc., who are apparently exempt) get much tougher sentances than those who take a human life? This shows more clearly than anything that society puts more value on material things than it does on human life.

The Death penalty is a step back in evolution, in my humble opinion. Only savages and extremely stupid people would advocate it.
 

Effin Effer!!!

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When I think of some of the more debased crimes for which I don't think the offenders can ever be rehabilitated, I'm tempted to agree with the Judge, a culling of the bad from the herd. But this of course would be a major step backwards for our society.

What we really need is proper jail time. If your given life you should literally spend the rest of your days behind bars and die in prison. Actual time served these days is an absolute joke!
 
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