Britain exerting pressure on our behalf?

odlum

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Something is going on folks. The Germans suddenly have dropped Corpo tax as an issue. Merkel says so herslf. The 4 year plan is starting to be leaked and nothing seems to have changed from what the Government would do anyway. Also a sovereign bailout looks set to be avoided through a contingency fund for the banks which they will draw if it is needed.


There is outside pressure here definately. My bet is it is from Britain.
 


Green eyed monster

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Something is going on folks. The Germans suddenly have dropped Corpo tax as an issue. Merkel says so herslf. The 4 year plan is starting to be leaked and nothing seems to have changed from what the Government would do anyway. Also a sovereign bailout looks set to be avoided through a contingency fund for the banks which they will draw if it is needed.


There is outside pressure here definately. My bet is it is from Britain.
The corpo tax demand was hilarious, what was the kernel of it? Either you adjust your taxes to our satisfaction or we will not allow you to transfer the debts of banks who borrowed from our banks onto your taxpayer's bill, either do as we say 'or you will not get our support in protecting the Euro, damn you!'.

If Britain is interested in corpo tax it is not for our benefit, the Tories for ideological reasons would generally support such low taxes (and would like to see a culture of lower taxes take root in Europe generally).
 

Odyessus

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Something is going on folks. The Germans suddenly have dropped Corpo tax as an issue. Merkel says so herslf. The 4 year plan is starting to be leaked and nothing seems to have changed from what the Government would do anyway. Also a sovereign bailout looks set to be avoided through a contingency fund for the banks which they will draw if it is needed.


There is outside pressure here definately. My bet is it is from Britain.

Of course it is. Would it kill you to acknowledge the government was telling the truth when they said that Corporation Tax was not negotiable?


P.S. It was noted by international commentators at the time the pressure came on from Merkel and her allies on Corporation Tax, that Ireland was not without allies of her own in the European councils on the issue.
 

readytogo

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No, the corporation tax rate was never going to change. Germany or France have no interest in seeing Ireland go bankrupt. It was a strawman deliberately created so that when the CT ended up staying the same the Fianna Fail party could market it as evidence of their negotiating prowess.
 

Odyessus

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No, the corporation tax rate was never going to change. Germany or France has no interest in seeing Ireland go bankrupt. It was a strawman deliberately created so that when the CT ended up staying the same the Fianna Fail party could market it as evidence of their negotiating prowess.

Wrong. It was Merkel and her allies trying to extract a quid pro quo for a bailout. That is why they were desperate for Lenihan to ask for one. He did not oblige, despite the pressure from Brussels aided by an ignorant Irish public opinion.
 

Holy Cow

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Sweden said they will drop us a few quid.

We can sort this out by ourselves, 7 from the brits, 7 from the swedes, 8 from the norweigens and in the mean time dump and jail all the traitors that took us to this place.

Result = Ireland sorted in less than 5 years.
 

kodak

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Wrong. It was Merkel and her allies trying to extract a quid pro quo for a bailout. That is why they were desperate for Lenihan to ask for one. He did not oblige, despite the pressure from Brussels aided by an ignorant Irish public opinion.
It's the Government thats ignorant along with their idiot supporters.
 

Odyessus

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Sweden said they will drop us a few quid.

We can sort this out by ourselves, 7 from the brits, 7 from the swedes, 8 from the norweigens and in the mean time dump and jail all the traitors that took us to this place.

Result = Ireland sorted in less than 5 years.


The IMF will set up a standby facility for Ireland, similar to an overdraft. We will only draw the money we need as and when we need it.

This avoids unnecessary interest payments since we will only be paying interest on the money we draw, not the total amount in the standby facility.
 

Holy Cow

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The IMF will set up a standby facility for Ireland, similar to an overdraft. We will only draw the money we need as and when we need it.

This avoids unnecessary interest payments since we will only be paying interest on the money we draw, not the total amount in the standby facility.
Yup, but all depends on IMF conditions being met.

The people of Ireland can deal with this a lot easier, a lot easier.
 

vanla sighs

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I wonder was the whole corporation tax thing a red herring? Throw it out there so the government can say: see! we saved the corporation tax - when all along it was never in peril? I'm starting to see conspiracies everywhere these days I'm afraid.......

If we take a 100 billion euro loan how the hell do we ever pay it back? Interest only repayments of 5 billion year on year - billions cut from the national budget year on year....and still the initial amount we've borrowed remains unpaid? Debt slaves. And why are we being charge a 5% interest rate? Why not say 2%? Or why not a interest free loan? If the whole pont is that we by making sure our banks don't fall are protecting "them", then why don't "they" offer us an interest free loan? Persoanlly I think we should let the bad banks fall.
 

ocoonassa

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Why do we need banks that have cancer? Why are we all going to have to loose 30 plus grands worth of value from our lives because banksters bought junk? Sorry but that isn't my fault, where's the justice in it? I don't mind paying for social and public services but I do mind paying to prop up rubbish banks. Why should I, please explain?
 

davidvaughan

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You called Sarkozy's bluff and he backed down.

Lower taxes are good for democracy. They're also a way for small countries with small internal markets to compete with big countries.

Just as a mechanic should be proud to say he offers lower prices than the fellah down the road, so there's no shame in a country declaring that it engages in tax competition.

The Swiss understand this.

"Tax competition provides opportunities which should be used. Above all I see three advantages:

First, tax competition offers citizens protection from the excessive tax appetite of governments. Tax competition is a significant guarantor of a favourable tax climate. That is to say, it is a regulative that disciplines state decision-makers and forces them to treat the financial means entrusted to them in a disciplined, careful, and economical manner.

Second, tax competition is then the discovery procedure for the exploration of new and innovative policy designs. Successful strategies are imitated and adapted. Their creators are invited to international events. Unsuccessful strategies, by contrast, are avoided. Tax competition thereby helps those taxation systems gain acceptance which tax payers feel are fair and reasonable. Several times already Swiss cantons have in this way contributed to the further development of our tax system.

Third, tax competition, however, also serves as a welcome standard of comparison. Citizens can measure the success of a government relative to the success of other governments and take this into consideration in elections. In this way, tax competition makes democracies livelier.

For Switzerland, tax competition is not only a theoretical concept. It represents one of the constitutive elements of our system of state and our self-understanding. Our experiences with tax competition are positive. Nonetheless, with us as well, it will not work without harmonization. However, we clearly differentiate between formal harmonization among cantons, which we strive for, and material harmonization, which we reject. Financial equalization forms the corrective between the objective differences of the cantons. Why should this not also apply to international tax competition? Following the well- known Frank Sinatra song, I believe that "if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere". Our double taxation agreements, the EU taxation of savings income or the cohesion payments are all an expression of these convictions."

FDEA -Tax weather and tax climate
 

grassroots

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No, the corporation tax rate was never going to change. Germany or France have no interest in seeing Ireland go bankrupt. It was a strawman deliberately created so that when the CT ended up staying the same the Fianna Fail party could market it as evidence of their negotiating prowess.
Correct,

the quid pro quo for the bail out will be 20% off PS salaries, numbers and welfare.
 

Boy M5

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Sweden said they will drop us a few quid.

We can sort this out by ourselves, 7 from the brits, 7 from the swedes, 8 from the norweigens and in the mean time dump and jail all the traitors that took us to this place.

Result = Ireland sorted in less than 5 years.
The Norwegian SWF cannot hold our debt.
 

Boy M5

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The IMF will set up a standby facility for Ireland, similar to an overdraft. We will only draw the money we need as and when we need it.

This avoids unnecessary interest payments since we will only be paying interest on the money we draw, not the total amount in the standby facility.
Which is exactly what is needed as once the hedge funds have taken their profits as our yields will fall (bond prices rise) & the bond markets are re-opened. For this happy event we have to be credible.

Lenihan is on "This Week" @ 1300 RTE Radio 1
 

Ulster-Lad

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FF can call it a 'loan' all they like. Our banks have all been mostly Nationalised. It is a Bailout plain and simple. FF are trying to spin this as a loan.
 

deiseguy

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It is a Bailout plain and simple.
I despise FF always have but please define bailout. This is not a bailout this is a loan which as another poster pointed out if it's for €100 bn at 5% interest will cost us €5 bn/year just to cover the interest. Over 20 years at 5% I reckon you would be looking at €8-€8.5 bn/year to pay it off on top of our other commitments. If that's a bailout it's a good job they're not trying to screw us.
 

Dreaded_Estate

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The IMF will set up a standby facility for Ireland, similar to an overdraft. We will only draw the money we need as and when we need it.

This avoids unnecessary interest payments since we will only be paying interest on the money we draw, not the total amount in the standby facility.

That is exactly how all IMF loans/bailouts are structured. Nothing unusual about it.

We will also have to meet predefined budget criteria in order to be able to draw down the money.
 

bm42

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I despise FF always have but please define bailout. This is not a bailout this is a loan which as another poster pointed out if it's for €100 bn at 5% interest will cost us €5 bn/year just to cover the interest. Over 20 years at 5% I reckon you would be looking at €8-€8.5 bn/year to pay it off on top of our other commitments. If that's a bailout it's a good job they're not trying to screw us.
It's a loan if the only condition is that we repay the principle plus interest. It's a bailout if they dictate economic policy to us in addition to the above.
 


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