British Army Declare Northern Ireland Not British.


Newrybhoy

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You say that but we are all aware that it is not true, and the wider world outside of NI is also aware. We have history books, witness accounts, videos and photos, you cant rewrite this one.
I don't have to rewrite anything, simple facts. Read Cain, it will explain it all to you.

The witness accounts and video are all testament to the murder and destruction perpetrated by the Ira.
 

Roll_On

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I don't have to rewrite anything, simple facts. Read Cain, it will explain it all to you.

The witness accounts and video are all testament to the murder and destruction perpetrated by the Ira.
We know about the state intimidation of Catholics, discrimination in housing and employment etc. all predating the troubles. The whole world knows, you can't rewrite it. Watch an episode or two of reeling in the years for example.
 

Newrybhoy

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We know about the state intimidation of Catholics, discrimination in housing and employment etc. all predating the troubles. The whole world knows, you can't rewrite it. Watch an episode or two of reeling in the years for example.
Do you deny that more Catholics were in social housing than Protestants in 1969?
 

between the bridges

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We know about the state intimidation of Catholics, discrimination in housing and employment etc. all predating the troubles. The whole world knows, you can't rewrite it. Watch an episode or two of reeling in the years for example.
Simple fact is there are two sides to every story, you don't want to hear the other side but that doesn't stop it from existing, I grew up in a 90% CNR area in a 70% CNR county were 95% of the murders were carried out by the IRA, and I can tell you it's a simple fact that discrimination, sectarianism, hatred and murder are not and never have been only carried out by one community alone..
 

Newrybhoy

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No, Do you deny that there was widespread discrimination in housing and employment?
How can discrimination have been widespread she more of the minority population were allocated public housing than the majority community?

Did Protestants have more council houses in the Republic than Catholics?
 

Roll_On

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Simple fact is there are two sides to every story, you don't want to hear the other side but that doesn't stop it from existing, I grew up in a 90% CNR area in a 70% CNR county were 95% of the murders were carried out by the IRA, and I can tell you it's a simple fact that discrimination, sectarianism, hatred and murder are not and never have been only carried out by one community alone..
I never claimed that was the case, though. It's Newry yolk claiming that there was no state discrimination against catholics, a flat untruth.
 

Newrybhoy

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I never claimed that was the case, though. It's Newry yolk claiming that there was no state discrimination against catholics, a flat untruth.
Catholics received more state housing. FACT.

Catholics had exactly the same educational and health opportunities as Protestants. FACT.

Discrimination in employment occurred all over NI, with Newry council being famous for it.

Your myopic view is tarnished by your lack of knowledge and learned propaganda.
 

Roll_On

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How can discrimination have been widespread she more of the minority population were allocated public housing than the majority community?

Did Protestants have more council houses in the Republic than Catholics?
Not sure if you're being obtuse or if you're genuinely not bright. It would be shocking if there were more protestants than Catholics in social housing at a time when a whopping 25% of the Catholic community was unemployed. Social housing allocated to Catholics at the time consisted of a shed made from sheep metal. Protestants were given brick and mortar houses. Catholics waited longer, protestant housing was a priority. Even new towns like Craigavon were built for protestants. Catholics were being discriminated against in housing as late as 2014 according to the loyalist newsletter:

Catholics waiting longer than Protestants for social housing: report
 
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2lazy

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How can discrimination have been widespread she more of the minority population were allocated public housing than the majority community?

Did Protestants have more council houses in the Republic than Catholics?
That would be a reflection of economic standing in both cases, hardly an argument for the non existence of state discrimination. As for protestants in the south they at peak were 10% of the population so your question is f@cking stupid.
 

between the bridges

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That would be a reflection of economic standing in both cases, hardly an argument for the non existence of state discrimination. As for protestants in the south they at peak were 10% of the population so your question is f@cking stupid.
Tisn't it strange how in the non discriminatory free state the minority population fell by two thirds while in the terrible narth the minority population increased by a thirdish...
 

Roll_On

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In 1992, 76 per cent of working age Protestants were economically active, compared with 66 per cent of working age Catholics. By 2016, these figures had fallen to 75 per cent for Protestants, but risen to 74 per cent for Catholics.
In 1992, 24 per cent of working age Protestants were economically inactive compared with 34 per cent of working age Catholics, a 10 percentage point difference. In 2016, the rates were 25 per cent for Protestants and 26 per cent for Catholics.
The Executive Office published the Labour Force Survey Religion Report 2016 on Wednesday. It examines the labour market characteristics of Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland.
Between 1990 and 2016, the proportion of the population aged 16 or over who reported as Protestant decreased from 56 per cent to 44 per cent. The proportion who reported as Catholic increased from 38 per cent to 42 per cent.

Catholics face higher unemployment than Protestants in North
 

between the bridges

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Not sue if you're being obtuse or if you're genuinely not bright. It would be shocking if there were more protestants than Catholics in social housing at a time when a whopping 25% of the Catholic community was unemployed. Social housing allocated to Catholics at the time consisted of a shed made from sheep metal. Protestants were given brick and mortar houses. Catholics waited longer, protestant housing was a priority. Even new towns like Craigavon were built for protestants. Catholics were being discriminated against in housing as late as 2014 according to the loyalist newsletter:

Catholics waiting longer than Protestants for social housing: report
pre-fab órit's' were constructed post WW2, I know an entire PUL estate were people lived in them for 30-40 years until the NIHE built brick skins on the outside! and they are still in use...
 

Roll_On

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Tisn't it strange how in the non discriminatory free state the minority population fell by two thirds while in the terrible narth the minority population increased by a thirdish...
The ROI was never and never will be 'non-discriminatory', but the degree of descrimination based on religion was fractional compared to NI in the same period.
 

between the bridges

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The ROI was never and never will be 'non-discriminatory', but the degree of descrimination based on religion was fractional compared to NI in the same period.
Do you think the same could be said if your minority was 30% instead of 3%...
 

2lazy

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Tisn't it strange how in the non discriminatory free state the minority population fell by two thirds while in the terrible narth the minority population increased by a thirdish...
A couple of factors at play here, such as traditional family size and the fact that southern protestants had in most cases the means to relocate to somewhere they felt more at home - not so much the case for northern Catholics.
There is quite the difference between a lifestyle choice and getting beating off the road by Police and thugs for engaging in a civil rights march for one man one vote
 

petaljam

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The majority didn't leave because they were happpy to stay. Free house, education and healthcare money and DLA cars.

They had the same as anyone else had.
Most people don't leave for the same reasons people remain in their native places around the world, however poor or difficult, namely because it's where they were born, ie. it's where their family are and therefore their home.

As for the DLA and free houses nonsense, well, my parents bought their own home, and never had a DLA car in their lives. Maybe it's the norm where you live, though.
 

petaljam

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A couple of factors at play here, such as traditional family size and the fact that southern protestants had in most cases the means to relocate to somewhere they felt more at home - not so much the case for northern Catholics.
There is quite the difference between a lifestyle choice and getting beating off the road by Police and thugs for engaging in a civil rights march for one man one vote
TBF, I think this is the one strongish point that NI loyalists actually have : Ne Temere was a major factor in the near disappearance of the southern Protestant community, and was not helped by the Republic's spineless attitude to the Catholic church.

Still not the same as the open discrimination employed up north, of course, but it was very much a case of the Catholic Church's interests diverging widely from those of the Irish people, and it's to the republic's shame that they were so utterly supine to the church's dictat.
 

Roll_On

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Do you think the same could be said if your minority was 30% instead of 3%...
I believe so, but who's to say definitively what an alternative history would be like. Certainly if NI never existed, protestants in an independent Ireland would have been a rather significant political force in the early days. With 1/3rd of the population, concentrated in what was then the wealthiest part of the country, I doubt the likes of Dev would have ever succeeded in handing over so many vulnerable women and children to the demonic Catholic Church's jurisdiction. The state would have been secularised much earlier on and there'd be a lot less babies in septic tanks. Contraception would have been available earlier. There'd be no provo campaign. There may have been a separatist loyalist insurrection of sorts from the more extreme end of the community but without UK interference it would no doubt have failed.
 

petaljam

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I believe so, but who's to say definitively what an alternative history would be like. Certainly if NI never existed, protestants in an independent Ireland would have been a rather significant political force in the early days. With 1/3rd of the population, concentrated in what was then the wealthiest part of the country, I doubt the likes of Dev would have ever succeeded in handing over so many vulnerable women and children to the demonic Catholic Church's jurisdiction. The state would have been secularised much earlier on and there'd be a lot less babies in septic tanks. Contraception would have been available earlier. There'd be no provo campaign. There may have been a separatist loyalist insurrection of sorts from the more extreme end of the community but without UK interference it would no doubt have failed.
I think it would have been immeasurably better for both parts of the island, for the reasons you mention.
 
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