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British believed elements of the IRA wanted peace in 1981


TiredOfBeingTired

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Sounds like a negotiating tactic to me.
Probably.
It was possibly an early move in a long,slow process.

I'll keep the radar switched on for info on further steps in 1981, but I wont be surprised if they dont exist.
Further steps would include further documentation papers, meetings, back channels being created, phone conversations etc...

I suspect these types of "possible peace" came up every couple of years.
1981 would have been a tricky year to do much negotiating.
 

Portadown madman

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Probably.
It was possibly an early move in a long,slow process.

I'll keep the radar switched on for info on further steps in 1981, but I wont be surprised if they dont exist.
Further steps would include further documentation papers, meetings, back channels being created, phone conversations etc...

I suspect these types of "possible peace" came up every couple of years.
1981 would have been a tricky year to do much negotiating.
I'm sure more info is about, I'd love to know who made the final decision, who said NO.
 

vivabrigada

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Thatcher believed the IRA would shoot hunger strikers if the refused to go through with the fast so that's how out of touch she was. Brendan Duddy was acting as a go-between at the time so I am sure there were discussions. What went wrong was the hunger strikes radicalised many Nationalists into Republicans. Paisley achieved the same result a decade earlier.
 

pinemartin

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Thatcher believed the IRA would shoot hunger strikers if the refused to go through with the fast so that's how out of touch she was. Brendan Duddy was acting as a go-between at the time so I am sure there were discussions. What went wrong was the hunger strikes radicalised many Nationalists into Republicans. Paisley achieved the same result a decade earlier.
What went wrong was that you need two sides to want a political solution. Anyone who looks at the history of the north understands that the war was over by 81 and it was a matter of finding a way of making peace. Unfortunately with Mrs T and elements within the British government peace for them meant a military victory. Peace was achievable only when someone on the British side decided that compromise was necessary. Look how quickly the process started after Mrs T and her ilk lost power.
 

Cruimh

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Unfortunately with Mrs T and elements within the British government peace for them meant a military victory.
Cobblers. If they had wanted a military solution they could have wiped out the Provo Leadership and many of their underlings. The Provos had to be seen to accept that NI was not being put into an All-Ireland Republic. And a way had to be found that they could do that with some sort of face saving formula.

And the article is a bit misleading IMO

The Provisionals need to settle the prisons problem on terms they can represent as acceptable to them if they are to go on – as we know some of them wish to do – to consider an end of the current terrorist campaign.
Only "some of them" - if the majority of the Republican Movement had seen what Adams and McGuinness would settle for in the future - surrender, decommissioning, ending abstentionism and recognising the validity of NI - then Adams and McGuinness would have been disappeared.
 

Swords Hoopster

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Cobblers. If they had wanted a military solution they could have wiped out the Provo Leadership and many of their underlings..
Thankfully the people in power at the time didn't contemplate that kind of ludicrous thinking. I shudder to think what the outcome of such an action might have been. The entire north of Ireland could have blazed into all out Civil War and no doubt it would have spilled over into the Free State and mainland Britain. Thousands might have been killed and its not inconceivable that the UN would have been forced to intervene. Peace would have been put off for decades further and the blood spilled would have been catastrophic.

I can't overestimate how disastrous the situation would have become if the British Government took such a course of action. Thankfully blood-lusting lunatics like Cruimh weren't the ones calling the shots at the time.
 

PO'Neill

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Cobblers. If they had wanted a military solution they could have wiped out the Provo Leadership and many of their underlings. The Provos had to be seen to accept that NI was not being put into an All-Ireland Republic. And a way had to be found that they could do that with some sort of face saving formula.

And the article is a bit misleading IMO



Only "some of them" - if the majority of the Republican Movement had seen what Adams and McGuinness would settle for in the future - surrender, decommissioning, ending abstentionism and recognising the validity of NI - then Adams and McGuinness would have been disappeared.
They tried to wipe out the Provo Leadership on the 9th of August 1971 and didn't get too far ;) If it was that easy do you think the Brit establishment would have allowed 150+ tonnes of arms to reach Ireland and allow the IRA to blow up Tory ministers, judges, shoot mortars into Downing Street, have their financial centres bombed to bits? Besides, it was the Provos who came the closer to wiping out the Brit leadership at Brighton - not the other way around :lol:

Regardless ......
[video=youtube;MRJGfe0k7rI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJGfe0k7rI&feature=related[/video]
 
Last edited:
J

Johnny Boy

What went wrong was that you need two sides to want a political solution. Anyone who looks at the history of the north understands that the war was over by 81 and it was a matter of finding a way of making peace. Unfortunately with Mrs T and elements within the British government peace for them meant a military victory. Peace was achievable only when someone on the British side decided that compromise was necessary. Look how quickly the process started after Mrs T and her ilk lost power.
Your last sentence sums it up. Thatcher actually believed the ridiculous mantra that "you don't deal with terrorists". No conflict in history has ever been resolved without the warring parties sitting down and talking.
 

Cruimh

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They tried to wipe out the Provo Leadership on the 9th of August 1971
1971 they didn't have people like Dirty Denis, Scap, Dominic Adams, Agent J118..... petunia

But even then ....

Making use of Lord Diplock's permissive recommendation that confessions made under interrogation could be accepted unless it could be proved that they had been extracted by torture, the RUC was able to deal such serious blows to the IRA that an IRA 'staff report' captured by the police in Dublin referred to it as 'contributing to our defeat'.

Henry Patterson - Ireland Since 1939 The Persistence of Conflict, page 251.
 

PO'Neill

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1971 they didn't have people like Dirty Denis, Scap, Dominic Adams, Agent J118..... petunia
Ah yep, the usual clutching at straws conspiracy theory. Yeah sure they had the IRA so well penetrated that they allowed Brighton to go ahead, Mountbatten, Christopher Ewart-Biggs the head of Brit intelligence in Ireland under the cover of the ambassador blown up in Dublin, causing out the greatest damage to any European city since the Luftwaffe in WW2 etc. Yeah sure, Brit intelligence was running the show, they sure had the whole world fooled.

Funny enough they don't seem to want to do the same with the disso's and want to clamp down on them whenever possible :)

But even then ....

Henry Patterson - Ireland Since 1939 The Persistence of Conflict, page 251.
Henry Patterson - ah for f**k's sake:roll:
 

Cruimh

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Ah yep, the usual clutching at straws conspiracy theory. Yeah sure they had the IRA so well penetrated that they allowed Brighton to go ahead, Mountbatten, Christopher Ewart-Biggs the head of Brit intelligence in Ireland under the cover of the ambassador blown up in Dublin, causing out the greatest damage to any European city since the Luftwaffe in WW2 etc. Yeah sure, Brit intelligence was running the show, they sure had the whole world fooled.
:D

Fact remains - 1971 was a different kettle of fish from the 1980s.

And Roy Mason would have defeated them if he had been given the time. As McGuinness said - he beat the Shít out of us ......You dirt birds LOST.

And the Dissos - how are they performing compared to the provos in 1971 ? :D
 

PO'Neill

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:D

Fact remains - 1971 was a different kettle of fish from the 1980s.

And Roy Mason would have defeated them if he had been given the time. As McGuinness said - he beat the Shít out of us ......You dirt birds LOST.

And the Dissos - how are they performing compared to the provos in 1971 ? :D
Yeah sure, the Brits could have wound them up but let it go on for 25 years but didn't to divert people's attention from the UK achieving world domination blah, blah, blah.
 

Ren84

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Your last sentence sums it up. Thatcher actually believed the ridiculous mantra that "you don't deal with terrorists". No conflict in history has ever been resolved without the warring parties sitting down and talking.
Thatcher certainly prolonged the Troubles by at least a decade. I wonder how different history would have been if Labour had held onto power 2 years previously.
 

Ren84

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Yeah sure, the Brits could have wound them up but let it go on for 25 years but didn't to divert people's attention from the UK achieving world domination blah, blah, blah.
Ignore Cruimh. He's just a nasty wee sh!t stirrer.
 

Cruimh

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