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British flocking to Ireland to avail of generous social welfare


Tony Soprano

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Mar 2, 2010
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356
As someone who deals with social wefare queries on a regular basis, it is now very apparent to me that people are returning from England to avail of our social welfare system. They are predominantly sons/daughters of Irish emigrants who are coming here to try and avail of rent allowance and free childcare etc.

If Britain cuts its welfare rates etc, then we will HAVE TO follow suit!!
Habitual residency clause doesnt seem to deter these people. They are willing to move here and then try and get social welfare!

(It seems that the majority of Eastern europeans moved when work dried up, but the Brits are moving in!)

The next time you hear of non-nationals claiming welfare, think London and not Warsaw!!!
 


ne0ica

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Joined
Oct 22, 2009
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8,446
As someone who deals with social wefare queries on a regular basis, it is now very apparent to me that people are returning from England to avail of our social welfare system. They are predominantly sons/daughters of Irish emigrants who are coming here to try and avail of rent allowance and free childcare etc.

If Britain cuts its welfare rates etc, then we will HAVE TO follow suit!!
Habitual residency clause doesnt seem to deter these people. They are willing to move here and then try and get social welfare!

(It seems that the majority of Eastern europeans moved when work dried up, but the Brits are moving in!)

The next time you hear of non-nationals claiming welfare, think London and not Warsaw!!!
Tony I don't like the tone of your post. To even suggest that soemthing is better in Ireland than England is an athema to the self loathing, self hating west Brit so called Irish people on this site.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Yeah thats why the statistics show that there is a net outflow of English people on SW from this country.
 

vanla sighs

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Sep 1, 2009
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5,102
As someone who deals with social wefare queries on a regular basis, it is now very apparent to me that people are returning from England to avail of our social welfare system. They are predominantly sons/daughters of Irish emigrants who are coming here to try and avail of rent allowance and free childcare etc.

If Britain cuts its welfare rates etc, then we will HAVE TO follow suit!!
Habitual residency clause doesnt seem to deter these people. They are willing to move here and then try and get social welfare!

(It seems that the majority of Eastern europeans moved when work dried up, but the Brits are moving in!)

The next time you hear of non-nationals claiming welfare, think London and not Warsaw!!!
Sorry but what do you mean they are returning from England? Do you mean they are Irish and returning home? But then you already said they were British so not too sure what you mean on that one? And if we have a habitual residency clause then how are they entitled to social welfare? Or is it that the HRC views the UK as Ireland in effect - an extension of the CTA more or less?

No, I don't see why Ireland should automatically follow suit should, when, the Tories cut social welfare in the UK. As you said we alredy have the HRC. If it's not being enforced properly then that's a totally seperate issue but that doesn't mean we reduce our levels of social welfare.

As far as I know British people have always been able to come to Ireland and claim the dole, just as Irish people have always been able to go to the UK and claim the dole. So, I gues the HRC doesn't apply but would stand corrected on that. If it did become an issue then yes, the government could simply tighten the regs or actually enforce the HRC - problem solved I guess? Again, maybe someone can correct me.
 

needle_too

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Aug 7, 2007
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923
Yeah thats why the statistics show that there is a net outflow of English people on SW from this country.
Ah yes... 'statistics' again.

Do show.

Sorry but what do you mean they are returning from England? Do you mean they are Irish and returning home? But then you already said they were British so not too sure what you mean on that one?
Doesnt matter whether they're Irish or half-Irish or whatever.
All UK citizens are entitled to benefits in Ireland; as all Irish are in the UK.
 

vanla sighs

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UB UK £58.00 UB Eire €196.00
I heard recently that a couple with one or two kids in the UK actually gets MORE in social welfare - and will still get more even with the Tory cuts - than a couple with one or two kids on the dole in Ireland. There are far more secondary benefits etc available to someone on the dole in the UK than there are in Ireland. From what I can recall the figure was about £25,000, it's less in Ireland. Now that is what I read (possibly on p.ie but don't have the sources to back it up before you ask, lol)
 

vanla sighs

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Doesnt matter whether they're Irish or half-Irish or whatever.
All UK citizens are entitled to benefits in Ireland; as all Irish are in the UK.
So the HRC doesn't apply to British nationals then? Well, simple way to fix that - apply it. But ideally wait and see how things develop, if there is major welfare tourism happening then yeah, block that avenue. It would also affect Irish people in the UK though. Still, I'd rather it was actually applied before social welfare was reduced simply because the Tories were doing it.

It would be lunacy for ANY Irish government to try and reduce social welfare to UK levels - it wouldn't work, it wouldn't wash, it would simply be IMPOSSIBLE. And rightly so. You must remember that those under 21 or 22 who are on the dole in Ireland are already on UK levels more or less (and remember the UK is a hell of a lot cheaper than Ireland) Now that in itself was a despicable act of cowardice by FF but to try and extend it another 400,000 - that's one sure fire way to have hundreds of thousands on the streets before the ink is dry. This is all theoretical though, no government are going to do that. It looks as though social welfare will be reduced, which is wrong but it will not fall to UK levels which means there will always be an attraction of Irish SW rates over UK SW rates. But that has been the case for years and years - haven't seen the British hordes at the gates............
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
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10,301
As someone who deals with social wefare queries on a regular basis, it is now very apparent to me that people are returning from England to avail of our social welfare system. They are predominantly sons/daughters of Irish emigrants who are coming here to try and avail of rent allowance and free childcare etc.

If Britain cuts its welfare rates etc, then we will HAVE TO follow suit!!
Habitual residency clause doesnt seem to deter these people. They are willing to move here and then try and get social welfare!

(It seems that the majority of Eastern europeans moved when work dried up, but the Brits are moving in!)

The next time you hear of non-nationals claiming welfare, think London and not Warsaw!!!
You maybe right, you may be wrong

- but there is no way the majority of the Osties have gone home

- most of them are still here.

Indeed thousands more have moved here this year alone.
 

gijoe

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Jul 26, 2010
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I heard recently that a couple with one or two kids in the UK actually gets MORE in social welfare - and will still get more even with the Tory cuts - than a couple with one or two kids on the dole in Ireland. There are far more secondary benefits etc available to someone on the dole in the UK than there are in Ireland. From what I can recall the figure was about £25,000, it's less in Ireland. Now that is what I read (possibly on p.ie but don't have the sources to back it up before you ask, lol)
The gap is certainly a good bit closer than the bare dole amounts suggest. For example you contribute some of your dole here towards your rent, I think it is circa €30 for a single person. Whereas in the UK your entire rent is paid separately in the UK and is not deducted from your dole. Plus I think there are a range of 'income support' payments in the UK on top of the bare dole figure. But it is not something I am an expert on.
 

vanla sighs

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UB UK 16-24 £51.85 UB Eire €100.00 : UB UK 25+ £65.45 Eire €196.00
Eire? Are you speaking as Gaeilge or something? The name of the State is Ireland not Eire - unless you're speaking in Irish.

You omit secondary benefits. And the fact that costs are lower in the UK.
 

gijoe

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BTW I am aware of one case recently where the HR clause was applied to an Irish person from where I live being applied when that person came back from the UK. So HR as far as I am aware also applies to UK residents moving to Ireland.
 

vanla sighs

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BTW I am aware of one case recently where the HR clause was applied to an Irish person from where I live being applied when that person came back from the UK. So HR as far as I am aware also applies to UK residents moving to Ireland.
Personally I think it's a disgrace that the HRC is applied to Irish people. But because we're all one big happy EU family now it seems they can't "discriminate". But that's rather odd becuase there is as far as I know a 2 year period before an EU national (not inc. UK citizens) can apply for social welfare here in Ireland - so we already do "discriminate". From what I can see they could just as easily then change the regs so the HRC doesn't apply to Irish people.
 

ocoonassa

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Oct 14, 2010
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Eire? Are you speaking as Gaeilge or something? The name of the State is Ireland not Eire - unless you're speaking in Irish.
So should we therefore be calling TD's 'assembly delegates' or the Gardaí 'guardians'? I'm just curious because I'm actually using those words all the time and I'm not speaking as Gaelige. What's the difference, can you explain?
 

Miserable eFFer

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May 4, 2010
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Article 4 of the Irish constitution adopted in 1937 provides that: "The name of the state is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland." The Constitution's English-language preamble also described the population as "We, the people of Éire". The Republic of Ireland Act enacted in 1948 makes clear that the "Republic of Ireland" is a description and not a name of the state. Ireland (in English) and Éire (in Irish) remain its two official names. Article 8 states that both Irish and English are the official languages of the state with Irish designated as the "national" and "first official" language. "Éire" has to some extent passed out of everyday conversation and literature.
Now to the subject of the original post.
To qualify for a social assistance payment you must be habitually resident in Ireland. People who are EEA citizens or Swiss nationals and employed or self-employed in Ireland and subject to the Irish Social Insurance system or are getting Irish Jobseeker's Benefit do not have to satisfy the habitual residence condition to qualify for Family Benefits. If you do not have a legal right of residence in the Rebublic of Ireland, you will not be regarded as habitually resident.
 

Aspherical123

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Joined
Mar 8, 2010
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As someone who deals with social wefare queries on a regular basis, it is now very apparent to me that people are returning from England to avail of our social welfare system. They are predominantly sons/daughters of Irish emigrants who are coming here to try and avail of rent allowance and free childcare etc.

If Britain cuts its welfare rates etc, then we will HAVE TO follow suit!!
Habitual residency clause doesnt seem to deter these people. They are willing to move here and then try and get social welfare!

(It seems that the majority of Eastern europeans moved when work dried up, but the Brits are moving in!)

The next time you hear of non-nationals claiming welfare, think London and not Warsaw!!!

If someone has Irish parentage, even if not born in Ireland thay have as much right to live there and call themselves Irish as you do.

And there is nothing that small town gombeen men like yourself, who have the jobs in the social welfare offices can do about it.

These peoples parents left to find work, why dont you give up your job and go on the dole, and give them a chance to have a job like yours.

Infact there should be monitoring to see if Irish born outside Ireland are discriminated against in attitudes and in numbers in govt jobs by people like yourself, sounds like they are.
 
Last edited:

Black Cat

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Mar 29, 2010
Messages
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Sounds like Tony's premise is based on opinion (and possible personally motivated gripe against the English) and not backed up by any factual evidence.
Well here's my personal opinion seeing as that's the tone that's set - the locals where I live are flocking to England for work so it's a give and take relationship - get used to it. Plus they are walking into building jobs because they are Irish and the jobs are provided by Irish contractors operating in the UK, which means the English are being discriminated against in finding work in their own country to the advantage of the Irish - dobut Tony'd care about that though seeing as they are coming here for our great benefits.
 

vanla sighs

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Sep 1, 2009
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So should we therefore be calling TD's 'assembly delegates' or the Gardaí 'guardians'? I'm just curious because I'm actually using those words all the time and I'm not speaking as Gaelige. What's the difference, can you explain?
You can call them whatever you'd like to, lol. However, the name of the State is still Ireland when speaking in English and Eire when speaking in Irish.
 

vanla sighs

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What makes you think that ?
What makes me think what exactly? The 2 year thing? There is a 2 year waiting period before any EU national can avail of the dole in Ireland. By the way, if they increased that to say 3 or 4 years the State has suddenly saved millions. And I think but could be wrong that that 2 years refers to having worked here - not simply here and staying with your friends or family or whatever.
 

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