British MP Brands Irish Minister As A 'Unionist'


mangaire1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
9,369
No. What kind of united Ireland - what flag, what anthem, what electoral system, what holidays, what symbols, what languages? The list goes on.
for starters - as another poster has told you-
an Ireland free from British rule.

& as or flag, athem, holidys ………
to be decided by the people of Ireland.
who else ??

& as I advised our DUP cara, Bridges -
just remember -

UK = Britain + NI

try & remember that,
& you won't make a fool of yourself, as you have already done, earlier on this thread.
 

Mickeymac

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,024
for starters - as another poster has told you-
an Ireland free from British rule.

& as or flag, athem, holidys ………
to be decided by the people of Ireland.
who else ??

& as I advised our DUP cara, Bridges -
just remember -

UK = Britain + NI

try & remember that,
& you won't make a fool of yourself, as you have already done, earlier on this thread.


I gave him every opportunity to explain himself, answered his posers.......but........he decided then to go fully troll when confronted.....end of.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,022
Are you now denying articles 2and3 have not been removed from the Irish constitution which helped to copperfastens the GFA?

The terms contained in that said agreement states a referendum on the constitutional position of the six counties can be enacted by the British SOS, which of course, if polls can be taken seriously the vote will be a positive for unification........got it yet?:roflmao:
It might, but you're not factoring in any of the other points I asked you about, many posts back. I'll repeat that, for your benefit:

See I'm not sure it can work that way. If you're gonna ask the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic whether they want a united Ireland, you have to tell them what it'd be first. Another problem with your idea is, what if North and South vote for a UI as in your scenario, but then the agreed constiturional changes are defeated in a referendum in the Republic - where does everything stand then?
What you seem unaware of is that the Irish Constitution also has to change for a united Ireland to happen, which means that you have to do one or other of the following. Either

A) You just have a referendum in Northern Ireland, with no information on what form the united Ireland will take; or

B) You have a referendum in the Republic first, outlining the form of united Ireland there'll be if the voters in the Republic approve.

What if you do B) and voters in the Republic say No? Alternatively what if you do A), then figure out afterwards what your united Ireland will be, and once you've done that suppose the voters in the Republic reject that referendum as well? And there's another factor - voters in the Republic won't be interested in taking ownership of a 51-49 majority for unification if the 49% up North are dead set against it. If the UVF or whoever else appears threaten, or indeed carry out, bombings, shootings etc in either the North or the Republic in the runup to any vote, voters in the Republic will vote No. Down here our main priority is that there's peace on the island, meaning we're fairly happy with the situation as it now stands. And just like unionists aren't fully aware that the rest of the UK actually looks at them a bit funny and doesn't really see them as theirs, so republicans in the North don't quite realise that people in the Republic view them as a bit odd too.

So, for your benefit, here's the only realistic way a united Ireland can happen via a border poll:

1) Demographic changes and polling data suggest a majority in Northern Ireland would vote for unity in a border poll;

2) Republic's government sets up an Oireachtas committee or some such grouping to look at how it could be done, and in particular what changes would be made to ensure reasonable buy-in from mainstream unionists in the event of a Yes vote - because voters in the Republic will have no interest in taking on a recalcitrant minority of a million people who don't recognise the country they live in, with all the attendant security risks and costs.

3) Vote on constitutional changes in Republic takes place on same day as border poll in North.

4) It only happens if there's a Yes vote in both.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,022
I gave him every opportunity to explain himself, answered his posers.......but........he decided then to go fully troll when confronted.....end of.
Your timing was, to put it mildly, slightly unfortunate with that post. See above.
 

mangaire1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
9,369
I gave him every opportunity to explain himself, answered his posers.......but........he decided then to go fully troll when confronted.....end of.
to be honest, I don't think that HBAP really wants a UI.

he wants to believe that the 26 Counties is Ireland.
 

Dearghoul

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
8,632
To be honest 'oul son, I think he'd probably like it, but is confronting the issues that you seem to be unready for. Where I might take issue with HBAP is in viewing the Nationalist community as a 'bit odd' That sugests a somewhat sheltered background.
 
Last edited:

Antóin Mac Comháin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
3,139
voters in the Republic will have no interest in taking on a recalcitrant minority of a million people who don't recognise the country they live in, with all the attendant security risks and costs.

If the UVF or whoever else appears threaten, or indeed carry out, bombings, shootings etc in either the North or the Republic in the runup to any vote, voters in the Republic will vote No.

And just like unionists aren't fully aware that the rest of the UK actually looks at them a bit funny and doesn't really see them as theirs, so republicans in the North don't quite realise that people in the Republic view them as a bit odd too.
Total Vote: 812,783

Eligible Electorate: 1,254,709

Turn Out: 64.8%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election,_2017

To be honest 'oul son, I think he'd probably like it, but is confronting the issues that you seem to be unready for.
Alternatively, he's just a waffler with a deep-rooted prejudice against Northern Nationalists who A) Hasn't done the Maths? B) Turns a blind-eye to the cover-up of State sanctioned Murder? and C) Believes his own Propaganda?
 

Talk Back

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
5,385
It might, but you're not factoring in any of the other points I asked you about, many posts back. I'll repeat that, for your benefit:



What you seem unaware of is that the Irish Constitution also has to change for a united Ireland to happen, which means that you have to do one or other of the following. Either

A) You just have a referendum in Northern Ireland, with no information on what form the united Ireland will take; or

B) You have a referendum in the Republic first, outlining the form of united Ireland there'll be if the voters in the Republic approve.

What if you do B) and voters in the Republic say No? Alternatively what if you do A), then figure out afterwards what your united Ireland will be, and once you've done that suppose the voters in the Republic reject that referendum as well? And there's another factor - voters in the Republic won't be interested in taking ownership of a 51-49 majority for unification if the 49% up North are dead set against it. If the UVF or whoever else appears threaten, or indeed carry out, bombings, shootings etc in either the North or the Republic in the runup to any vote, voters in the Republic will vote No. Down here our main priority is that there's peace on the island, meaning we're fairly happy with the situation as it now stands. And just like unionists aren't fully aware that the rest of the UK actually looks at them a bit funny and doesn't really see them as theirs, so republicans in the North don't quite realise that people in the Republic view them as a bit odd too.

So, for your benefit, here's the only realistic way a united Ireland can happen via a border poll:

1) Demographic changes and polling data suggest a majority in Northern Ireland would vote for unity in a border poll;

2) Republic's government sets up an Oireachtas committee or some such grouping to look at how it could be done, and in particular what changes would be made to ensure reasonable buy-in from mainstream unionists in the event of a Yes vote - because voters in the Republic will have no interest in taking on a recalcitrant minority of a million people who don't recognise the country they live in, with all the attendant security risks and costs.

3) Vote on constitutional changes in Republic takes place on same day as border poll in North.

4) It only happens if there's a Yes vote in both.
1/ There will be a voting Nationalist majority in the north in 2022. All recent polls show that it is neck and neck right now between ending England's rule in Ireland and remaining in the Uk - with a majority in favour of ending England's rule in Ireland should there be a hard Brexit.

2/ You need to know that the Irish Government have already set up a 'Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement'. They produced a paper last August called 'Uniting Ireland & its People in Peace & Prosperity'

Listen @ 25. https://audioboom.com/posts/6820573-...scuss-bbcnolan

Read. http://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireach...sperity_en.pdf

3/ Big deal - not a problem.

4/ see above.

As for idiot Unionists causing trouble - let the brits clean up their own sh1t during the transition period, after the vote yes, and before the actual hand back of the occupied 6 counties to the Irish people.

Ní dheaghaidh rogha ó réiteach.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,022
to be honest, I don't think that HBAP really wants a UI.

he wants to believe that the 26 Counties is Ireland.
Actually I would like to see a united Ireland. But I suspect it's not the sort of "united Ireland" that MickeyMac wants, which looks very like a tribal 50%+1 vote in the North, and to hell with everyone else.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,022
To be honest 'oul son, I think he'd probably like it, but is confronting the issues that you seem to be unready for. Where I might take issue with HBAP is in viewing the Nationalist community as a 'bit odd' That sugests a somewhat sheltered background.
I didn't say that I think they're a bit odd. I said that in the Republic they're seen as a bit odd.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,022
Total Vote: 812,783

Eligible Electorate: 1,254,709

Turn Out: 64.8%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election,_2017



Alternatively, he's just a waffler with a deep-rooted prejudice against Northern Nationalists who A) Hasn't done the Maths? B) Turns a blind-eye to the cover-up of State sanctioned Murder? and C) Believes his own Propaganda?
You see every time you post, you're proving my point. You think the maths in Northern Ireland is everything. I'm telling you that if you actually want a united Ireland as distinct from some sort of pyhrric tribal victory up North, it isn't.

So maybe, at your convenience, you might address the points I'm making.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,022
1/ There will be a voting Nationalist majority in the north in 2022. All recent polls show that it is neck and neck right now between ending England's rule in Ireland and remaining in the Uk - with a majority in favour of ending England's rule in Ireland should there be a hard Brexit.
That's a big, big "if".

2/ You need to know that the Irish Government have already set up a 'Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement'. They produced a paper last August called 'Uniting Ireland & its People in Peace & Prosperity'

Listen @ 25. https://audioboom.com/posts/6820573-...scuss-bbcnolan

Read. http://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireach...sperity_en.pdf
Your links don't exist.

3/ Big deal - not a problem.
How do you know? You don't even know what the constitutional changes are yet. I don't think you've given this any thought at all yet. Have you thought about flag, anthem, head(s) of State, parliament, minimum guaranteed representation, membership of international organisations, etc?

As for idiot Unionists causing trouble - let the brits clean up their own sh1t during the transition period, after the vote yes, and before the actual hand back of the occupied 6 counties to the Irish people.
So that will be your answer to people in the Republic, when there are bombs and shootings in advance of a vote? And you seriously think that voters in the Republic would want a Northern Ireland embroiled in civil war, to be solely the Republic's problem?
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
3,139
republicans in the North don't quite realise that people in the Republic view them as a bit odd too.
2/ You need to know that the Irish Government have already set up a 'Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement'. They produced a paper last August called 'Uniting Ireland & its People in Peace & Prosperity'
When people engage with you as HBAP has done in the terms above, it's time to detach from them and cut your losses. It's a waste of time and energy, and his ulterior motive is to rile and bait Republican and Nationalist posters into a response.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
3,139
voters in the Republic will have no interest in taking on a recalcitrant minority of a million people who don't recognise the country they live in, with all the attendant security risks and costs.
Total Vote: 812,783

Eligible Electorate: 1,254,709

Turn Out: 64.8%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election,_2017
DUP - 225,413

UUP - 103,314

So maybe, at your convenience, you might address the points I'm making.
Out of common courtesy I've addressed the initial claim you made, but I won't be responding to any more of your posts.
 

death or glory

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
17,459
A British MP from the Shin Flake party has branded Irish Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan "a unionist"...

Sinn Fein MP Chris Hazzard has branded Irish Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan "a unionist" after the minister said the argument for Irish unity should not be combined with Brexit.

On Twitter Mr Flanagan said that "conflating Brexit with Irish unity is unhelpful and misguided".

In response to the Tweet Sinn Fein's South Down MP said that Mr Flanagan was a "unionist".

"His response to growing demand for Irish unity is entirely predictable, he wants to protect the status quo," Mr Hazzard wrote.

After criticism of his Tweet Mr Flanagan said that he stood "four-square behind the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement".

Sinn Fein in unity row - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Is there anyone the flaking by ourselves alone party hasn't fallen out with? And imagine stooping so low as to brand anywan as a 'unionists', shocking stuff...
I'm glad to see our British MP's putting those Johny Foreigners in their place.
 

mac tíre

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
8,475

AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
7,837
Different argument on a different thread. Don't you worry your wee head about it.
Oh dear :roll: on "this thread" you told another poster not to be sectarian when he posted that NI was not part of Britain .. as NI is NOT in Britain, said poster could not have been being sectarian so you were incorrect ....
.... Now if thats not what you meant, maybe you should have made that clear as folk shouldn't normally have to run around checking other threads to clarify the intended meaning of a post :?

btw, it might also be an idea to stop with your idiotic "holier than thou" attitude all the time .. its becoming rather tiresome
 

hollandia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
30,988
Oh dear :roll: on "this thread" you told another poster not to be sectarian when he posted that NI was not part of Britain .. as NI is NOT in Britain, said poster could not have been being sectarian so you were incorrect ....
.... Now if thats not what you meant, maybe you should have made that clear as folk shouldn't normally have to run around checking other threads to clarify the intended meaning of a post :?

btw, it might also be an idea to stop with your idiotic "holier than thou" attitude all the time .. its becoming rather tiresome
Like I said, different argument on a different thread. I made it clear to you. The bit in the brackets should have been enough to give you something of a clue. Now butt out. This sort of kneejerk bull is precisely the point of the original post.
 

AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
7,837
See I'm not sure it can work that way. If you're gonna ask the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic whether they want a united Ireland, you have to tell them what it'd be first. Another problem with your idea is, what if North and South vote for a UI as in your scenario, but then the agreed constiturional changes are defeated in a referendum in the Republic - where does everything stand then?
I see you've moved swiftly on from your idiotic assertion that Daniel O'Connell was British .... I must say I find it hard to take you seriously after that little gem :?
 
Top