British State Murder

peter123

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People don't like to believe it.

Could the British government really murder at will in Ireland, still??

Lets hear what an RUC member had to say.

1. I am a former member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) which I joined in 1970 and served until 1980. After initial training in Enniskillen Training Depot, I began my police career in Strandtown RUC Station in East Belfast.

2. I left the RUC in 1980 following my conviction for the murder of William Strathearn at Ahoghill, Co.[County] Antrim, which occurred in April 1977. ...

That was the first time I ever met Robin Jackson and R.J. Kerr, two Loyalist paramilitaries, whom I would later come to know well. I assumed that oneof my SPG colleagues had previously informed these men that I would be useful to their cause.

10. Some time after my transfer to Belfast, I received a visit from two of my former colleagues in Armagh SPG, Gary Armstrong and Ian Mitchell.They told me that ACC Rodgers had spoken to their unit once more and that they had expressed their view to him that a drastic change of policy was necessary to combat the IRA more effectively in South Armagh. They told me that they had decided for themselves, as a result of the discussions stimulated by his visit s, that the time had come to take direct action against not merely known Republicans or IRA activists but against the Catholic population in general. I agreed with them that the only way to stop the IRA murder campaign was to attack the Catholic community itself, so that it would put pressure on the IRA to call off its campaign. After I had indicated my interest in their plans, Armstrong and Mitchell informed me that they had already begun to implement them. They had started their campaign by carrying out a bomb and gun attack near Keady village, in June 1976, at the Rock Bar which is located within yards of the border with the Irish Republic.

11. Armstrong and Mitchell gave me a detailed account of how they had organized and carried out the attack. They explained how, during the attack, the detonator had exploded but the bomb itself had failed. They also told me that the machine gun attack, which had been designed to keep the customers inside the bar until the bomb exploded, had resulted in just one serious injury. The injured man had been shot by a third RUC Constable, William McCaughey, who had participated in the attack. A fourth RUC Constable, Laurence McClure also took part. I was also told that two other RUC Constables who had previously agreed to participate, David Wilson and William Scott, had failed to turn up as arranged.....

28. I think it is important to make it clear that this collusion between Loyalist paramilitaries such as Robin Jackson and my RUC colleagues and me was taking place with the full knowledge of my superiors. I recall that after I had told Chief Inspector Breen about my involvement in the Strathearn murder, that he told me to forget about it. I also recall later witnessing a conversation between Chief Inspector Breen and Inspector Harvey who was in charge of Newry CID when both men discussed with approval McCaughey and Armstrong's continuing activity in Loyalist terrorism with Robin Jackson. And I recall another occasion, in the toilets at the Pitbar near Bessbrook when RUC Special Branch Constable David Miller indicated to me that he knew I had been involved in the Strathearn murder and suggested he would not object if I was to kill an identified IRA man in Newry. For these and other reasons I did not think there was the slightest possibility that I would ever be arrested or charged with my role in the Strathearn murder.
Read more here

SeeingRed [John Weir's Affadavit]


Why the silence of British state sanctioned murder in Ireland ?

Are we really so docile ?
 


TonyBird

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Jun 24, 2010
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Why the silence of British state sanctioned murder in Ireland ?

Are we really so docile ?
Well I dont know if its related or not but Cameron at the tory conference 'affirmed' the fact that UK and Eire cooperate 'at every level' . I assume that means special/secret service. I assume Dermot Aherne wouldnt object .

*He said this the day after the 'Derry bombing'
 

Green eyed monster

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take direct action against not merely known Republicans or IRA activists but against the Catholic population in general. I agreed with them that the only way to stop the IRA murder campaign was to attack the Catholic community itself, so that it would put pressure on the IRA to call off its campaign.
The definition of terrorism is right there (targeting of a population designed to bring pressure to bear upon it in order to achieve some response or result).

There seem to be a lot of secrets being aired lately

To go with your post they also admit that internment was applied according to sectarian principles...

MoD took softer line on loyalist paramilitaries, secret files reveal | UK news | The Guardian

During the four years that internment without trial was enforced, August 1971 to December 1975, a total of 1,981 suspects were held in Long Kesh and other prison camps. Of those, 1,874 were Catholics or republicans, and only 107 were Protestants or loyalists.

The recently released files, discovered at the National Archives in Kew in London by researchers from the Derry-based Pat Finucane Centre, expose the official thinking behind the disparity and highlight the military's relaxed attitude towards loyalist paramilitary factions....

A secret MoD review entitled Arrest Policy for Protestants, undertaken in 1972, reveals a debate among officials about whether anti-terrorist measures should be uniformly applied across the province's sectarian divide.....

Military arrest instructions did not, however, specify that senior members of the UVF or other loyalist paramilitary groups should be arrested over similar suspicions.

"The policy does not therefore provide for the arrest of Protestant terrorists except with the object of bringing criminal charges," the MoD review admitted. "Protestants are not, as the policy stands, arrested with a view to their being made subject to interim custody orders and brought before the commissioners.

"If we are to arrest Protestant terrorists who are not chargeable (for the same evidential reasons which lead us to resort to detention rather than prosecution for many Provisionals), then we need to extend our policy. This would be a big step to take."
In the following case there seems to be deliberate blindness toward the factuality of Loyalist murder...

In 1972, around 120 people were killed by loyalist paramilitaries from the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA)....One file records an inquiry from an official from the attorney general's office who explained that "another question from counsel was why only Roman Catholics were interned before 1973". A lawyer from the Treasury solicitor's office replied that "in [the] view of the security forces there was no serious Protestant threat in that period of a kind which led to death and serious injuries".
120 murders in 1 year by loyalists did not amount to a 'serious' threat which 'led to death and serious injuries'?

Note the blatantly sectarian language in all the above, the MOD reports use the term 'Protestants', not Loyalists or Unionists. Basically despite being the major party to the targeting of civilians, they had to have actual charges before they could arrest Loyalists, not so with the IRA. This is in keeping with what you describe as the Loyalists usefulness in creating productive terror among the Catholic population.

One MoD official in November 1972 defended the imbalance by remarking that "an important function of the UDA is to channel into a constructive and disciplined direction Protestant energies which might otherwise become disruptive".
It's all coming out.
 

Follyborn

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take direct action against not merely known Republicans or IRA activists but against the Catholic population in general. I agreed with them that the only way to stop the IRA murder campaign was to attack the Catholic community itself, so that it would put pressure on the IRA to call off its campaign.
The definition of terrorism is right there (targeting of a population designed to bring pressure to bear upon it in order to achieve some response or result).

There seem to be a lot of secrets being aired lately

To go with your post they also admit that internment was applied according to sectarian principles...

MoD took softer line on loyalist paramilitaries, secret files reveal | UK news | The Guardian



In the following case there seems to be deliberate blindness toward the factuality of Loyalist murder...



120 murders in 1 year by loyalists did not amount to a 'serious' threat which 'led to death and serious injuries'?

Note the blatantly sectarian language in all the above, the MOD reports use the term 'Protestants', not Loyalists or Unionists. Basically despite being the major party to the targeting of civilians, they had to have actual charges before they could arrest Loyalists, not so with the IRA. This is in keeping with what you describe as the Loyalists usefulness in creating productive terror among the Catholic population.



It's all coming out.
100% but i doubt anything will be done about it
 

idle tim

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Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
3,050
People don't like to believe it.

Could the British government really murder at will in Ireland, still??

Lets hear what an RUC member had to say.



Read more here

SeeingRed [John Weir's Affadavit]


Why the silence of British state sanctioned murder in Ireland ?

Are we really so docile ?
Excellent post Peter,i am currently reading an investigative book into Dublin Monaghan bombings and finding some of the facts about the collusions and cover ups stomach churning,along with the almost blanket denial in some quarters that the great RUC,UDR ect were capable of such deeds.Centureos assertion on another thread of 99.5% of UDR being great people is an example of that,i wonder what lies about their heros will be fobbed on their community in 100 years times.
 

vinoboy

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Jul 29, 2010
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Why do you not take all this stuff and cut and paste in it's natural home of Relatives for Justice rather than clogging up this site with wet dream republican muppetry based on the witterings of fantasists and conspiracy theorists . Is it not time to move on or have a Truth Commission when everybody including SF/IRA , INLA fess up to what really happened and by whom . No wonder BC was provoked in to napalming these threads .
 

picador

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Excellent post Peter,i am currently reading an investigative book into Dublin Monaghan bombings and finding some of the facts about the collusions and cover ups stomach churning,along with the almost blanket denial in some quarters that the great RUC,UDR ect were capable of such deeds.Centureos assertion on another thread of 99.5% of UDR being great people is an example of that,i wonder what lies about their heros will be fobbed on their community in 100 years times.
British Military Intelligence believed that between 5% and 15% of UDR strength were loyalist paramilitaries.
CAIN: Public Records: Subversion in the UDR

It seems likely that a significant proportion (perhaps five per cent - in some areas as high as 15 per cent) of UDR soldiers will also be members of the UDA, Vanguard service corps, Orange Volunteers or UVF.
 

idle tim

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British Military Intelligence believed that between 5% and 15% of UDR strength were also members of loyalist parmailitary organisations.
CAIN: Public Records: Subversion in the UDR
Less said about BMI the better,is this the same BMI who were sure Iraq was awash with weapons of mass destruction,and within 40 mins of launch capacity,nearly as long as it took Cruimh to launch his "boring" response to this thread.
 

picador

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Less said about BMI the better,is this the same BMI who were sure Iraq was awash with weapons of mass destruction,and within 40 mins of launch capacity,nearly as long as it took Cruimh to launch his "boring" response to this thread.
MI6 knew the 40 minutes claim was not reliable. That the British Parliament was deliberately misled over it is probably a better illustration of the power of the secret state.
 

idle tim

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MI6 knew the 40 minutes claim was not reliable. That the British Parliament was deliberately misled over it is probably a better illustration of the power of the secret state.
My point is Pic,i would not believe a word from the mouth of an organisation so steeped in innocent blood it has no right to call itself an intelligence service,it does the World a disservice.
 

picador

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My point is Pic,i would not believe a word from the mouth of an organisation so steeped in innocent blood it has no right to call itself an intelligence service,it does the World a disservice.
The document I cited was not a 'dodgy document' for public consumption. It was a document prepared for government ministers. As it was also a document about a British Army regiment one might expect the information to be reliable.
 

picador

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Of course in 1973 neither the UDA nor the VSC were illegal organisations - in fact the VSC didn't exist after March 73.
That was just a little legal nicety which didn't prevent the UDA from murdering hundreds of people. All the more shocking that such people should knowlingly allowed to join the British Army.
 

idle tim

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There's a lot of sour grapes on this thread - squeals of "they didn't beat us fair and square" .....
Not sour grapes Cruimh,its a pretty explosive statement which would have had incredible reprecussions had it come to light at the time(no wonder Stalker was sent packing), also the word ORANGE stands out in a very sinister way,even you have to acknowledge that.
 

earwicker

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Tut tut picador - the UDA had not murdered "hundreds of people" by 1973 when the guesstimate was made .....
I thought you found this type of discussion boring, Cruimh?
 


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