Brits blink. DUP defeated and Leo goes full republican. Another masterful performance by Sinn Fein.

TruthInTheNews

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Sinn Fein have once again demonstrated their mastery of asymmetric warfare. A soft border, the destruction of DUP hegemony and Leo’s born again republicanism are some of the fruits of the Sinn Fein strategy. Leo’s hard line on the border was pure Sinn Fein and the decision to stand down Sinn Fein candidates in favour of tactical voting was genius. Mary Lou can take the credit as both policies were her idea. She assiduously courted Varadkar and Coveney on the border issue and effectively formulated Irish government policy. That policy is now based on an assumption that there will be a numerical majority in favour of unification within five years.

McDonald agreed to let FG take the lead in opposing a hard border and keep SF in the background so as not to frighten the horses. In return, Leo and Simon agreed to stare down the Brits and enter into a FG/SF coalition after the next election if the numbers stack up. This is a historic realignment of Irish politics. The traditionally pro-Brit FG are now singing from the same hymnbook as Sinn Fein while FF have abandoned the last vestiges of republicanism to become a party with no ideological principles whatsoever apart from Fianna Fail first, country last.

No one believes that Michael Martin would have taken such a hard line with the Brits. Varadkar can rightly argue that he is is the most effective constitutional nationalist since Daniel O’Connell in terms of results acheived. No other Irish Taoiseach has achieved so much for his countrymen north of the border. Varadkar and FG have earned the gratitude of the Irish Nation north and south and could well win the next election on the strength of their ‘border campaign’ alone.
 


McTell

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Sinn Fein have once again demonstrated their mastery of asymmetric warfare. A soft border, the destruction of DUP hegemony and Leo’s born again republicanism are some of the fruits of the Sinn Fein strategy. Leo’s hard line on the border was pure Sinn Fein and the decision to stand down Sinn Fein candidates in favour of tactical voting was genius. Mary Lou can take the credit
//

Dunno, SF (old and new) assisted and perpetuated the border.

And whenever the border goes, they will be in a minority and have nothing to say beyond "please give money to the areas that vote for us".
 

Rural

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Dunno, SF (old and new) assisted and perpetuated the border.

And whenever the border goes, they will be in a minority and have nothing to say beyond "please give money to the areas that vote for us".
I don't know where you get that little nugget from, the border was there, manned by British soldiers and Irish Custom Officers. It was created and perpetuated by the British Government.
 

ainm_eile

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Sinn Fein have once again demonstrated their mastery of asymmetric warfare. A soft border, the destruction of DUP hegemony and Leo’s born again republicanism are some of the fruits of the Sinn Fein strategy. Leo’s hard line on the border was pure Sinn Fein and the decision to stand down Sinn Fein candidates in favour of tactical voting was genius. Mary Lou can take the credit as both policies were her idea. She assiduously courted Varadkar and Coveney on the border issue and effectively formulated Irish government policy. That policy is now based on an assumption that there will be a numerical majority in favour of unification within five years.

McDonald agreed to let FG take the lead in opposing a hard border and keep SF in the background so as not to frighten the horses. In return, Leo and Simon agreed to stare down the Brits and enter into a FG/SF coalition after the next election if the numbers stack up. This is a historic realignment of Irish politics. The traditionally pro-Brit FG are now singing from the same hymnbook as Sinn Fein while FF have abandoned the last vestiges of republicanism to become a party with no ideological principles whatsoever apart from Fianna Fail first, country last.

No one believes that Michael Martin would have taken such a hard line with the Brits. Varadkar can rightly argue that he is is the most effective constitutional nationalist since Daniel O’Connell in terms of results acheived. No other Irish Taoiseach has achieved so much for his countrymen north of the border. Varadkar and FG have earned the gratitude of the Irish Nation north and south and could well win the next election on the strength of their ‘border campaign’ alone.
Do you have a source for all of this? I think Michael Martin's soft stance on the Brits was just shameless opportunism, and he would have wrapped himself in the Tricolour if he were Taoiseach.
 

runwiththewind

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Do you have a source for all of this? I think Michael Martin's soft stance on the Brits was just shameless opportunism, and he would have wrapped himself in the Tricolour if he were Taoiseach.
Don't know if he would have wrapped himself in the Tricolour but if he becames Taoiseach he will, when the WA is signed off on. If however, Boris takes a different tact, I wouldn't trust him.
 

McTell

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Can you explain how you have come to that conclusion.

If you look at the history from 1900, the more culturally separate we wanted to be, and the more ancient-irish and catholic, the less likely it was the island would stay in one political piece.
 

McTell

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I don't know where you get that little nugget from, the border was there, manned by British soldiers and Irish Custom Officers. It was created and perpetuated by the British Government.

It was an awful solution, but it wouldn't have been set up in the first place if we had been more realistic about independence, and showed the nordies that it was in their interests.

Not just in the interests of linguists of a dead language, and those who followed a church that was still banning the works of galileo as late as 1900.

In other words, if we had been more savvy and less emo.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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if they're so masterful how come they are leaking votes at such a rate? I'm something of a semi-detached PBP supporter myself, and I'm worried- the last election was poor.
 

Rural

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It was an awful solution, but it wouldn't have been set up in the first place if we had been more realistic about independence, and showed the nordies that it was in their interests.

Not just in the interests of linguists of a dead language, and those who followed a church that was still banning the works of galileo as late as 1900.

In other words, if we had been more savvy and less emo.
Sorry now, I'm lost.

You think that it was all down to language and religion? As far as I'm concerned it was all about settlers who wouldn't settle unless they were in control of an apartheid state over the natives.

Thankfully, young educated people from both sides of the divide have no time for this and I can't wait until they take over.
 

owedtojoy

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Sinn Fein have once again demonstrated their mastery of asymmetric warfare. A soft border, the destruction of DUP hegemony and Leo’s born again republicanism are some of the fruits of the Sinn Fein strategy. Leo’s hard line on the border was pure Sinn Fein and the decision to stand down Sinn Fein candidates in favour of tactical voting was genius. Mary Lou can take the credit as both policies were her idea. She assiduously courted Varadkar and Coveney on the border issue and effectively formulated Irish government policy. That policy is now based on an assumption that there will be a numerical majority in favour of unification within five years.

McDonald agreed to let FG take the lead in opposing a hard border and keep SF in the background so as not to frighten the horses. In return, Leo and Simon agreed to stare down the Brits and enter into a FG/SF coalition after the next election if the numbers stack up. This is a historic realignment of Irish politics. The traditionally pro-Brit FG are now singing from the same hymnbook as Sinn Fein while FF have abandoned the last vestiges of republicanism to become a party with no ideological principles whatsoever apart from Fianna Fail first, country last.

No one believes that Michael Martin would have taken such a hard line with the Brits. Varadkar can rightly argue that he is is the most effective constitutional nationalist since Daniel O’Connell in terms of results acheived. No other Irish Taoiseach has achieved so much for his countrymen north of the border. Varadkar and FG have earned the gratitude of the Irish Nation north and south and could well win the next election on the strength of their ‘border campaign’ alone.
How come they lost Derry?

 

McTell

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Sorry now, I'm lost.

You think that it was all down to language and religion? As far as I'm concerned it was all about settlers who wouldn't settle unless they were in control of an apartheid state over the natives.

Thankfully, young educated people from both sides of the divide have no time for this and I can't wait until they take over.

That's fair enough, but in the real world when you argue for change there will be a cost, so it has to be better than before.

What happened here in the south was that everything got worse for 50 years, and that cemented the idea that the border was a good thing, or was a rational outcome. And we moderns are stuck with that.

The matter of "settlers and natives" was first solved by wolfe tone who ignored it, and said we all had to rise above all that and see ourselves as irish. Time for you to catch up from the 1700s.
 

Rural

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That's fair enough, but in the real world when you argue for change there will be a cost, so it has to be better than before.

What happened here in the south was that everything got worse for 50 years, and that cemented the idea that the border was a good thing, or was a rational outcome. And we moderns are stuck with that.

The matter of "settlers and natives" was first solved by wolfe tone who ignored it, and said we all had to rise above all that and see ourselves as irish. Time for you to catch up from the 1700s.
Me?

I don't believe in borders.
 

bang bang

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Do you have a source for all of this? I think Michael Martin's soft stance on the Brits was just shameless opportunism, and he would have wrapped himself in the Tricolour if he were Taoiseach.
FF have gone full scale anti republican, MM is an utter disgrace. When they to call to my door during the next election they'll get short shrift.
 

bang bang

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It was an awful solution, but it wouldn't have been set up in the first place if we had been more realistic about independence, and showed the nordies that it was in their interests.

Not just in the interests of linguists of a dead language, and those who followed a church that was still banning the works of galileo as late as 1900.

In other words, if we had been more savvy and less emo.
Sorry now, I'm lost.

You think that it was all down to language and religion? As far as I'm concerned it was all about settlers who wouldn't settle unless they were in control of an apartheid state over the natives.

Thankfully, young educated people from both sides of the divide have no time for this and I can't wait until they take over.
I'm starting to think McTell is one organise self loathing Paddies who detects his own language and culture.
 

bang bang

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It was an awful solution, but it wouldn't have been set up in the first place if we had been more realistic about independence, and showed the nordies that it was in their interests.

Not just in the interests of linguists of a dead language, and those who followed a church that was still banning the works of galileo as late as 1900.

In other words, if we had been more savvy and less emo.
Irish is not a dead language you cretin, it's spoken every day in our house. Perhaps you and your ilk are just too lazy/stupid to be bothered. Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam.
 

McTell

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I'm starting to think McTell is one organise self loathing Paddies who detects his own language and culture.

I'm all for choice and people not being told to believe this and obey that.

When you've travelled as I have, you'd see that a lot of "culture" is there to keep the powers that be on top of the heap. If you want that, fine, it's your choice.
 


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