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Burma trying to cull Muslim population


Ren84

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Saw an interesting story on Al Jazeera this morning about a new law introduced in Burma's restive western state of Rakhine where couples would be limited to a maximum of two children. However authorities have apparently excluded Buddhists from the new enactment.

Rakhine state spokesman Win Myaing said the new programme was meant to stem rapid population growth in the Muslim community, which a government-appointed commission identified as one of the causes of the sectarian violence.

Although Muslims are the majority in the two townships in which the new policy applies, they account for only about 4 percent of Myanmar's roughly 60 million people.

The measure was enacted a week ago after the commission recommended family planning programs to stem population growth among Muslims, Win Myaing said.

The commission also recommended doubling the number of security forces in the volatile region.

"The population growth of Rohingya Muslims is 10 times higher than that of the Rakhine (Buddhists)," Win Myaing said. "Overpopulation is one of the causes of tension."
Two child limit imposed on Myanmar's Rohingya - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

With all the accusations of western discrimination and violence towards Muslims here is an actual clear cut example of Muslim's being discriminated against. Why does AQ and other Islamist groups rarely go after East Asian countries with the level of ferocity we in the West are used to? I couldn't see an Islamic insurgency lasting too long in China or North Korea. :?
 


Ulster-Lad

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So does that 2 child limit that applies to a couple mean a Muslim man and just one of his wives or a man with the combined total of his wives?
 

Sync

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What do you think "cull" means?
 

Schomberg

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There's been a few muslim terrorist attacks in the Xinjiang province of NW China over th years hasn't there?. Not sure what the reaction of the authorities has been. I'd image they'd be pretty brutal should muslim extremists start attacking the heart of thr country. Then of course Indonesia and the Philippines have had regular attacks.
 

Ren84

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What do you think "cull" means?
I think you know exactly what it means?

Mobs of Buddhists armed with machetes razed thousands of Muslim homes, leaving hundreds of people dead and forcing 125,000 to flee, mostly Muslims.

Witnesses and human rights groups said riot police stood by as crowds attacked Muslims and burned their villages.
 

Ren84

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There's been a few muslim terrorist attacks in the Xinjiang province of NW China over th years hasn't there?. Not sure what the reaction of the authorities has been. I'd image they'd be pretty brutal should muslim extremists start attacking the heart of thr country. Then of course Indonesia and the Philippines have had regular attacks.
This is the thing though, China has been quite brutal in its treatment of the minority Uighur Muslim people yet you never heard a whisper from AQ or any of the other nutter groups bordering the country. They realise the response from Beijing to any fighters coming across the border from Afghanistan and Pakistan would be devastating to say the least.
 

Telemachus

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Ren , look up what muslim sect the rohinga are.
 

Sync

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I think you know exactly what it means?
Exactly. That's culling. Removing them, usually by killing them. A 2 child policy isn't culling. It's population control, and wrong, but it's not culling, and to use the word in relation to the policy detracts from what happened last year. It's like when people misuse "Genocide".
 

Schomberg

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This is the thing though, China has been quite brutal in its treatment of the minority Uighur Muslim people yet you never heard a whisper from AQ or any of the other nutter groups bordering the country. They realise the response from Beijing to any fighters coming across the border from Afghanistan and Pakistan would be devastating to say the least.
I agree but I suppose the lure of Fighting The Great Satan is more powerful for potential recruitment than the vast emptiness of China. Muslims in the middle east are a lot closer to the West culturally than they are to Asia. If someone muslim nutjob hacks a chinese soldier to death in the street, the west or the middle east probably wouldn't take much notice but Lee Rigbys murder sent shockwaves all over the western world. From a cold calculated POV, attacks and terror in the west have far more propaganda value.
 

Ren84

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Exactly. That's culling. Removing them, usually by killing them. A 2 child policy isn't culling. It's population control, and wrong, but it's not culling, and to use the word in relation to the policy detracts from what happened last year. It's like when people misuse "Genocide".
Who says "cull" was to denote the two child policy alone? It's part of a broader campaign by the Burmese state to limit the Muslim population, a cull in fact. A pretty apt term to describe a two pronged solution of ethnic cleansing and population control.
 

Ren84

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I agree but I suppose the lure of Fighting The Great Satan is more powerful for potential recruitment than the vast emptiness of China. Muslims in the middle east are a lot closer to the West culturally than they are to Asia. If someone muslim nutjob hacks a chinese soldier to death in the street, the west or the middle east probably wouldn't take much notice but Lee Rigbys murder sent shockwaves all over the western world. From a cold calculated POV, attacks and terror in the west have far more propaganda value.
There's that, but then there's also the fact fighting the west is the easier option open to Islamists. Easier of course being a relative term. Due process and rule of law of the countries they target surely weigh on the minds of AQ strategists.
 

Cynicist

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Ren , look up what muslim sect the rohinga are.
Even more relevant is the fact that last year the Myanmar Government did not include the Rohingya minority group–-classified as stateless Bengali Muslims from Bangladesh since 1982—on the government's list of more than 130 ethnic races and therefore the government says that they have no claim to Myanmar citizenship.
The refugee camps beyond Chittagong in Bangladesh have been homes for many of the Rohingya.
 

Thac0man

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With all the accusations of western discrimination and violence towards Muslims here is an actual clear cut example of Muslim's being discriminated against. Why does AQ and other Islamist groups rarely go after East Asian countries with the level of ferocity we in the West are used to? I couldn't see an Islamic insurgency lasting too long in China or North Korea. :?
Just before or after OBLs death, did Al Queda not promote a man to the higher ranks of the organisation that called for greater AQ penetration into Asia? I seem to remember posting about it.

From the point of view of blood thirsty nihilists it made a lot sense, because thats where the majority of Muslims in the world live. But it will be interesting to see if extremists have the legs for a fight against traditionalist Asiatic cultures who are readier than we are in the west to maintain xenopobia as a tool of cultural identity.

But that said, Bin Laden & co. made some pretty lofty claims about the universality of what they represented. In truth they are and remain cultural Arabists who rage against their own impotance. It was not AQ intervention that saved thousands of lives in Darfur, and I do not think that AQ ever carried out an attack against Arabist Khartoum for its killing of a quarter of a million black muslims. If AQ fail to make inroads into Asia, and I suspect they will in any meaningful way, then we might expect them to claim lazy or random attacks against the west are actually punishment for western relations with Burma.

At this stage I think we nearing the conclusion that Islamist Jihadism is a form of mental illness, as there is little enough pattern and enough contradiction in how its idiology is expressed to remove dispute of such a claim. We now know that that AQ affiliates can not run countries, don't do re-construction and have little or no interest in the lot of Muslims themselves, especially if they are black. In global terms, they are a street gang of hoodlums, who only really gain when established Arab powers occasionally sponsor them to do their bidding.

Increasingly the falacies about what AQ is, and its universality, seem only to be believed by westernised jihadists. Unless we see a 747 ploughed into Petronas towers, I expect Asia, like it has with so many other idiologies, will just swallow up AQ.
 

Schomberg

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There's that, but then there's also the fact fighting the west is the easier option open to Islamists. Easier of course being a relative term. Due process and rule of law of the countries they target surely weigh on the minds of AQ strategists.
It's liberal and it's already got large concentrations of muslims in various countries. What's most terrifying about all the most recent attacks is how many of the terrorists were born in Europe, second or third generation "immigrants". How do you combat stuff like that? The Muslim leadership in this country has been completely useless IMO. Issuing statements is fine, but what else? Why aren't they taking to the streets? Expelling these nutcases from mosques is counter productive because all they do is go to the extremist mosques
 

Cynicist

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Not sure the AQ link to the localised conflict between extremist Buddhists and the Rohingya Muslims (mostly in trading and business because of lack of land) is established.

Its a bit of a stretch to suggest that this conflict proves anything relating to AQ in such a diverse country and then to extend it to a continent is simplistic in the extreme. In many countries Islam is in the forefront in fighting corruption but to link that to AQ would not fly either.
 

Thac0man

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Not sure the AQ link to the localised conflict between extremist Buddhists and the Rohingya Muslims (mostly in trading and business because of lack of land) is established.

Its a bit of a stretch to suggest that this conflict proves anything relating to AQ in such a diverse country and then to extend it to a continent is simplistic in the extreme. In many countries Islam is in the forefront in fighting corruption but to link that to AQ would not fly either.
Its been a year now, and still no fundamental change in the Rohingya situation. You are right, AQ has no link to the Rohingya 'conflict', but that is not for the want of trying. And despite lip service, no other Islamic Jihadist outfit formed in the Middle East has gained a foothold in Asia either.

But if that is a good thing, it also reveals that ethnicity trumps religion. Wealthy and underpopulated Gulf states have not stepped in to save their co-religionists, and in Asia the Rohingya were not an issue in the recent Indonesian Presidential election. Now 270,000 Rohingya are due to be deported back to Myanmar by 'Muslim' Bangladesh.

Bangladesh proposes interning, repatriating up to 270K Rohingya to Myanmar | Al Jazeera America

They will return to a Myanmar where now even Un San Suu Kyi is forbidden full rights, because she has (had) a foreign spouse.

BBC News - Aung San Suu Kyi condemns 'unjust' constitution

The global trend of recent years has been the ethnic retrenchment of nations. From Moscow's 'Cossack' agenda to Beijing's 'Han' program, many states in between have also pursued security agenda's based on mono-cultural and mono-ethnic domination. It is perhaps a reaction to one facet of globalisation, as countries make efforts to shore up their defences against 'foreign interference'. But in every instance it is minorities who suffer, and it still looks like no one is going to step in to help the Rohingya.

The Rohingya are stateless people, but they are very much the victims of their own leaderships failure, more than anything else. Their 600 year existence in Burma has been a whirlwind of tit for tat massacres, and their attempt to establish a 'Muslim state' coincided with the emergence of post war Burma as independent. So their political narrative runs contrary to the notion of a unified Burmese nation. There is in short nothing in the Rohingya character or history that appeals to the Burmese notions of what it is to be Burmese. In fact its quiet the opposite.

The Burmese have done much to erode Rohingya abilities and aspirations. But it is fair to say that Rohingya aspirations and abilities were never sensitive to Burmese wants. The last meaningful act of the Rohingya political leadership was to reach out to Jinnah, to ask for help in tearing off a chuck of Burma away from Rangoon. But when they failed no peace or accommodation was sought, and their failure was left to fester.

The old leadership of the Rohingya is now an ineffective Mujadaheen. Probably happy to smuggle goods across borders and run protection rackets until this all 'dies down'. And with no effective leadership, and no way to replace ineffective leaders, population displacement is tearing apart what basic community cohesion remained. Any attempt to rectify the Rohingya leadership situation would only make things worse, if candidates had any lingering link to past separatists. Rangoon may be happy to feed Buddist extremism to sort out the Rohingya issue, but they would quickly leap on an opportunity to crush something they could quantify as 'a rebellion'.
 
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Mercurial

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This is really going to confuse our resident racists. Do they side with the foreigners, or the Muslims? (Probably the foreigners)
 

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